Bertman supports Smoke | Page 2 | TigerFan.com

DallasLSU · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

Two things:

1) Bertman has a job to keep and he wouldn't stay with Smoke if he didn't feel it was in LSU's best interest( which in turn is his own best interest since his job depends on the success of the sports teams).

2) Everyone praises Skip for being the great college baseball coach ever...Well then trust his instincts. He would know before us whether Smoke was wrong for the job and, in the long run, he'll do what he feels is best for the LSU program. I for one trust him...

LSUHotdog · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

DallasLSU said:

Two things:

1) Bertman has a job to keep and he wouldn't stay with Smoke if he didn't feel it was in LSU's best interest( which in turn is his own best interest since his job depends on the success of the sports teams).

2) Everyone praises Skip for being the great college baseball coach ever...Well then trust his instincts. He would know before us whether Smoke was wrong for the job and, in the long run, he'll do what he feels is best for the LSU program. I for one trust him...
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Dallas, don't underestimate the financial "elite" that keep the LSU machine well oiled. They can certainly rachet up the pressure on Bertman to do something if they don't like what's happening. Look at the Auburn situation with Tubby a few years ago.

Stripes I agree with the pitching/pitching coach situation. But you have to give credit to the pitchers like Greg Smith who were able to pick off a decent amount of runners. Although as left handers they should hold the runners better.

SabanFan · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

STRIPES said:

That isn't all Liuza's fault and probably hardly any of his fault at all.
Most of the steals that LSU opponents get are the result of LSU pitchers taking all F--king day to pitch the damn ball to the plate. In other words, the steals are coming off the pitching staff much more than from the lack of Liuza's arm strength. Hell, by the time Liuza gets the ball on most steal attempts, the runner is almost standing at second base. Throwing at that point would simply be futile.

I hate to harp on LSU's pitching again but the truth is the truth. LSU's
pitching staff was VERY long to the plate and has been since Smoke & Wiederhold (sp?) combined their collective "genius" at coaching pitchers.
I have stated early on this season that I thought the LSU pitching staff was drasticly over-rated and I still believe that to be true. However, the
SLOOOOOW delivery which most LSU pitchers have is obvious and is
something that a competant pitching coach would definitely attempt to correct but absolutely NOTHING was done during the season to speed up delivery in order to limit steals against LSU. As a matter of fact, I was surprised that many teams didn't try to steal mors often against LSU than
they did because a team with real speed on the basepaths would make LSU look really bad if they chose to exploit LSU's pitching. Teams like Fullerton would have a damn field day and that's no joke.

What this situation indicates to me is a lack of fundamental understanding of
the game of baseball by some of LSU's coaches. It also falls in line with the lack of pitching development over the last few years at LSU and some of the
questionable decisions regarding pitching rotation, relieving, etc. It all indicates a real weakness in the pitching area on LSU's coaching staff.
Some of that can be blamed on the pitching coach but Smoke is responsible for much of the problem as well.
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You raise some very valid issues, but this:

What this situation indicates to me is a lack of fundamental understanding of the game of baseball by some of LSU's coaches
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Is just stupid.

Jean Lafitte · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

STRIPES said:

That isn't all Liuza's fault and probably hardly any of his fault at all.
Most of the steals that LSU opponents get are the result of LSU pitchers taking all F--king day to pitch the damn ball to the plate. In other words, the steals are coming off the pitching staff much more than from the lack of Liuza's arm strength. Hell, by the time Liuza gets the ball on most steal attempts, the runner is almost standing at second base. Throwing at that point would simply be futile.

I hate to harp on LSU's pitching again but the truth is the truth. LSU's
pitching staff was VERY long to the plate and has been since Smoke & Wiederhold (sp?) combined their collective "genius" at coaching pitchers.
I have stated early on this season that I thought the LSU pitching staff was drasticly over-rated and I still believe that to be true. However, the
SLOOOOOW delivery which most LSU pitchers have is obvious and is
something that a competant pitching coach would definitely attempt to correct but absolutely NOTHING was done during the season to speed up delivery in order to limit steals against LSU. As a matter of fact, I was surprised that many teams didn't try to steal mors often against LSU than
they did because a team with real speed on the basepaths would make LSU look really bad if they chose to exploit LSU's pitching. Teams like Fullerton would have a damn field day and that's no joke.

What this situation indicates to me is a lack of fundamental understanding of
the game of baseball by some of LSU's coaches. It also falls in line with the lack of pitching development over the last few years at LSU and some of the
questionable decisions regarding pitching rotation, relieving, etc. It all indicates a real weakness in the pitching area on LSU's coaching staff.
Some of that can be blamed on the pitching coach but Smoke is responsible for much of the problem as well.
Click to expand...

I don't know how accurate you are with this info, but I strongly agree that if a coaching staff is demonstrably weak in teaching/improving the fundamental skills of the sport, then that coaching staff will not win championships.

My hope is that Skip has a methodology to evaluate every LSU coaching staff in an objective manner, so that a decision to make a coaching change can be based on objective and quantifiable criteria.

I have no idea whether Skip agrees with me, or whether the LSU baseball coaching staff is good at teaching/improving player skills.

STRIPES · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

SabanFan said:

You raise some very valid issues, but this:

Is just stupid.
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You are entitled to your opinion but what is actually stupid is the way LSU coaches have ignored pitching problems which are obvious to anyone who knows baseball. If you think LSU's coaches have shown good judgement in handling the pitchers and the way the pitchers ALL are slow to the plate then
you and I disagree but pitching delivery is just one of the FUNDAMENTAL
problems on the LSU team. To ignore something like that for an entire year is "stupid" and is a large reason why LSU catchers threw out so few runners this year.

If LSU does the same thing next year, it will have the same result.
The pitchers are too slow to the plate. It's pretty simple.

SabanFan · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

Jean Lafitte said:

if a coaching staff is demonstrably weak in teaching/improving the fundamental skills of the sport, then that coaching staff will not win championships.
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That is your opinion and you may be correct. But to say they don't have an understanding of baseball fundamentals is ridiculous.

cajdav1 · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

STRIPES said:

You are entitled to your opinion but what is actually stupid is the way LSU coaches have ignored pitching problems which are obvious to anyone who knows baseball. If you think LSU's coaches have shown good judgement in handling the pitchers and the way the pitchers ALL are slow to the plate then
you and I disagree but pitching delivery is just one of the FUNDAMENTAL
problems on the LSU team. To ignore something like that for an entire year is "stupid" and is a large reason why LSU catchers threw out so few runners this year.

If LSU does the same thing next year, it will have the same result.
The pitchers are too slow to the plate. It's pretty simple.
Click to expand...

So does that mean all of the coaches who worked with Maddux and glavine and every other major league pitcher who is slow to the plate are bad coaches. You may be able to help a pitcher deveope a slide step but that is about it as far as their delivery is concerned unless they are very comfotable with a change and still able to pitch well. Most can't.

lsubatgirl04 · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

In the past four years at LSU the only pitcher I know of that completely changed his style of delivery was Faircloth.

tirk · Jun 9, 2005

Re: Tirk, regarding Liuza not throwing anyone out....

STRIPES said:

That isn't all Liuza's fault and probably hardly any of his fault at all.
Most of the steals that LSU opponents get are the result of LSU pitchers taking all F--king day to pitch the damn ball to the plate. In other words, the steals are coming off the pitching staff much more than from the lack of Liuza's arm strength. Hell, by the time Liuza gets the ball on most steal attempts, the runner is almost standing at second base. Throwing at that point would simply be futile.

I hate to harp on LSU's pitching again but the truth is the truth. LSU's
pitching staff was VERY long to the plate and has been since Smoke & Wiederhold (sp?) combined their collective "genius" at coaching pitchers.
I have stated early on this season that I thought the LSU pitching staff was drasticly over-rated and I still believe that to be true. However, the
SLOOOOOW delivery which most LSU pitchers have is obvious and is

something that a competant pitching coach would definitely attempt to correct but absolutely NOTHING was done during the season to speed up delivery in order to limit steals against LSU. As a matter of fact, I was surprised that many teams didn't try to steal mors often against LSU than
they did because a team with real speed on the basepaths would make LSU look really bad if they chose to exploit LSU's pitching. Teams like Fullerton would have a damn field day and that's no joke.
Click to expand...

http://www.tigerforums.com/showthread.php?t=27870

way ahead of you. still about 1/3 of the blame is on liuzza. I never blamed him once but you have to throw out a damned runner during the year. at least one.

rumor has it he has hid an injury all year I suppose for the draft. would make sense if true.

TigerwithaRope · Jun 9, 2005

what about Meir(sp?)?