here is a quote i liked from the same wiki article

A.J. Ayer in "Language, Truth and Logic" using the verifiability theory of meaning concluded that metaphysical propositions were neither true nor false but strictly meaningless, as were religious views.

thats the way i see it. when you start talking about religious views and metaphysics, you are simply just babbling nonsense.

we cant definitively. i think logically speaking we apply what we know to everything else. it would seem something had to create the universe. everything seems to come from something. surely we do not know. the big bang seems like a load of crap logically to me. doesnt mean it didnt happen.

dude, we get it. stop being so sensitive.

my crippling sensitivity is only a part of the issue.

our whole society takes the position that religious belief is better than none, and they dont see the contradiction. they dont see that for any religion you take, you are denying thousands of others. and that is not arrogant, if atheism is?

we are more likely to elect a gay man than an atheist for president. that mindset, the reason people feel this way, it is a tremendous limiter on human progress.

de-stigmatizing reason and mocking superstition is a worthwhile goal.

clearly that is the case. but everyone is indoctrinated to wherever they happened to be spawned. and the cycle continues.

i understand you repeat these things rhetorically to convey a message but i dont think it will ever change an opinion here.

yeah but you dont care about the human race anyhow. why would you care about its progress now or beyond your existence. whats your real motivation.

doesnt seem to be effective on this forum. maybe a new approach is in order.

i dont necessarily agree that i cant change an opinion here.

why do i care about human progress? you are right, i dont. so why bother? i dunno, boredom? same reason any topic is discussed? when we have a psychology forum we can address my issues.

The measurement of your self being, mental, physical, and spiritual happiness, that you place a premium on love of your family and friendship is NOT debateable. It's "YOUR" measurement. NOW THEN,,,,,your faith in the lord that guides you,,,,,,,,,,,babble, babble, babble,,,,,,turmoils,,,,babble, babble, babble...............IS debateable. Just because you're probobly a good guy and a well-meaning human being still puts NO credence in "the lord". You still can't prove there's "a lord". Unless you can bring him over to my house and introduce him to me, it's BS.

Obviously you're a christian. NOW.......here's the 64 thousand dollar question. If you were "a lord" and held sway over the universe, would you want a bunch of idiots to get down on their knees, close their eyes, and PRAY that you'll take care of them? What would be the purpose? Would it make you feel like a real..............LORD? I mean, you do reign over the universe. I'd think that would be about the trillionth thing you'd want. You'd have to want something better than that unless you're completely FULL of yourself. I mean,,,,,,Jesus!
The other questions are obvious. How come "the lord" never complies with your "wishes", or prayers? How come he lets the little innocent children suffer and die? Why does he allow disease and famine? Why is he gonna let all the Jews into heaven when they don't even believe his son came to die for them? How come your "minister" at church comes up with ridiculous answers for these questions when you ask him? How come your "minister" isn't immune to all the hurt and suffering for himself since he's God's representative?

Being the rational guy that I am, why will you think I'm going to hell for speaking the truth? Why will you say I need to have faith in an invisible entity instead of looking at reality in the world? Are you being honest with yourself? I think not.

Wanna get that "Ole-Time" feeling without speaking gibberish, handling snakes, wallowing around on a church floor, or confessing your sins to a guy who'd like to molest your little boy? I'd suggest having a drink, going to your local bar and listening to some good blues. Now that's real.

As I stated before, all I know is what I've been taught and what I believe matters. The complexities of creation of the universe and being I will leave to the great philosophers and scientists who have yet to figure it out. What works for me maynot work for every other individual being, but that isn't my concern. It isn't my contention that my relationship with God and my self being be what you would want or desire.

As I stated in the other thread I don't believe in institutionized religion. So, I don't know about ministers. Who's to say he doesn't answer prayers. I have my health, 3 beautiful healthy children, a wonderful wife, and a good career. I'd say he has blessed me well.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to insist that you give up your source for this little nugget.