You should hear yourself tell us that those who have died from Covid-19 with underlying issues did not deserve whatever time they had remaining, that Covid took from them and their families. You need to also remember that those folks didn't just lose their remaining time, they were also condemned to die alone. The fact that you can somehow find justification for these under the auspices that "oh well, they would have died anyway..." is callous and cold. I've known you on this board for many years. We've rarely agreed politically. But I never believed you were someone who would make excuses like this one just to cover the tracks of Trump and his lack of leadership during this time. Time is the most precious commodity we have. We are always running out of it and cannot make more of it. To say that whatever time those people had remaining wasn't valuable to them and to their families is just plain wrong.

https://sebotero.github.io/papers/COVIDrallies_10_30_2000.pdf

Stanford study that says Trump's rallies have caused an additional 30,000 cases of Covid-19 and 700 deaths. Shame on him.

NBC is submitting already with the writing on the wall. they predict trump. the melts again will be glorious. who ever thought we'd get to watch the same shit play out again. this is going to make the 2020 shit show almost worth it.

Biden is leading Trump in 2020 polls. But expect Election Day to be a repeat of 2016.
Biden and his campaign are making mistakes that will ensure little of this matters. And the polls are almost certainly wrong again.
President Donald Trump at the end of his campaign rally in Bullhead City, Ariz., on Oct. 28, 2020.Jonathan Ernst / Reuters

Nov. 1, 2020, 3:30 AM CST
By Keith Koffler
Contrary to the prevailing wisdom among the cognoscenti, history and current circumstances suggest President Donald Trump is going to defeat former Vice President Joe Biden — for some of the very same reasons he came from behind in 2016 to shock the Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

It is understandable why conventional wisdom is getting this wrong again.

It is understandable why conventional wisdom is getting this wrong again. Trump is down in the polls, the nation’s demographics are continuing to change in ways unfavorable to Trump and Republicans, the coronavirus has wrought death and economic destruction throughout the land and Trump’s personality provokes stormy oceans of antipathy — perhaps most crucially among women and suburban voters.


But Biden and his campaign are making mistakes that will ensure little of this matters. And the polls are almost certainly wrong again. The only question is by how much.

The economy is turning around, playing to Trump’s strength. The president has made significant outreach to minorities, and a relative handful of Black voters switching from Democrat to Republican could help him secure states like Georgia, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and North Carolina. Not to mention that Trump — unlike Biden — is actually campaigning for the job.
Think of it. Clinton wandering around the woods near her home in Chappaqua, N.Y., kicking herself for not appearing even once in Wisconsin. Meanwhile Biden is only now belatedly hitting the trail — a little. This is a risky experiment. Every modern presidential candidate has traveled as much as humanly possible — and then traveled some more. Meeting and speaking to voters — responsibly — is key. Biden is exploring the political equivalent of eating consommé with a fork.

Campaigning does not just reach voters. It imparts a sense of vigor, industriousness and sociability that people want in a leader. I don’t think Trump should be drawing so many people to celebrations that feature sardine-packed, mask-less supporters whose health is at risk. But his rallies suggest that better days are ahead — the theme of most winning presidential campaigns.

Thursday, there was a significant indicator that happy days may indeed soon be here again. The Commerce Department released the U.S. gross domestic product number for the third quarter, showing growth rate of around 33 percent. This will feed directly into Trump’s argument that he is best positioned to save the economy.

Trump complains endlessly about mail-in ballots, ignoring that they may help him. Many more Democrats are voting by mail than Republicans. But these ballots are more likely to be rejected because mistakes were made filling them out or they were late — or simply got lost.

And while the Covid-19 numbers are rising, this does not necessarily benefit Biden. Trump has been arguing that it is time to open up the economy and stop worrying so much about the spread of the virus. People have pandemic fatigue, and they are eager to go back to their regular, pre-Covid lives, even if this sometimes means endangering themselves or others.

And not only is Biden staying home, his army of volunteers and canvassers have been cooped up as well, doing outreach on their parents’ Wi-Fi instead of out seeing voters. The Biden campaign only recently emerged from the basement — with the exception of its leader — after Trump’s operatives had already spent months contacting voters on their doorsteps. Refusing to mobilize voters by showing up in their neighborhoods early and often is another likely ill-fated Biden experiment in ignoring modern campaign practice.


You also should not underestimate the vast amount of damage created by Biden’s second debate suggestion that he would eventually eliminate the oil industry. When moderator Kristen Welker asked him whether he would “close down the oil industry,” Biden answered “Yes,” he would transition from it. When Welker then asked why he would do that, he responded, “Because the oil industry pollutes, significantly.”



Although the economy may be on the upswing, the American public is still suffering, making this is a gaffe of historic proportions. Biden later walked it back, insisting, “We’re not getting rid of fossil fuels for a long time.” But his intention is clear. At the very least, the comment could well lose him Pennsylvania — where fracking has created tens of thousands of jobs.

Then there are the polls. Pollsters insist their surveys have been adjusted from 2016 to include more demographics that support Trump — though they may harbor new flaws. They are still unlikely to capture the vast enthusiasm gap between Trump and Biden voters and fail to pick up the “shy Trump voters,” — people afraid to admit they back Trump — who may be shyer than ever.

The shy voter phenomenon could prove even more pronounced in 2020 than in 2016.

A bubbly volunteer calls on the phone and wants to know whom you are voting for. Do you want to admit to this person, perhaps an enthusiast of Sen. Bernie Sanders, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or at least, a Taylor Swift fan, that you support the putatively racist, misogynist, greedy, white supremacist Trump? Of course not. “Biden!” You say. “Green New Deal! Leave me alone, goodbye!”

The shy voter phenomenon could prove even more pronounced in 2020 than in 2016. You could at least explain not voting for Clinton. She was unlikable to so many. Though inspiring fewer strong feelings, Biden is, at least, not as easy to despise. What’s more, Trump has been vilified for the past four years, giving voters less of an excuse to admit they’re still voting for him.

This could be particularly true for Black and Latino voters, who may not want to acknowledge supporting someone they have been told they must oppose. Expect Trump to far outpace his pathetic showing among Black voters in 2016, particularly Black men. Prior to the pandemic, Black unemployment had declined to record low levels. Trump has also signed and promoted major criminal justice reform legislation, resulting in the release of thousands of prisoners, including many African Americans.

OPINION

Moreover, the polls are not as bad as they seem for Trump. At this point before Election Day, Trump is, on average, polling behind Biden in battleground states by nearly the same amount he trailed Clinton in 2016. Trump is going to win many of those battleground states again.

And, just like in 2016, the Electoral College and the presidency will follow.

Well one thing is for sure...@LSUPride123 will be along soon enough to scold you for posting the entire article and not just a link to it.

he cant read anyhow.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of what may happen; this guy is no different. However, he's fooling himself into thinking that Biden is polling no better than Clinton in the battleground states.

Let's take a look at them state by state:
Arizona...Final polling for 2016 was Trump by 4 points. Trump won by 3.5 points. That's a net of -0.5 for Trump. Biden is currently polling at 1.4 point ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Biden up by 0.9

Florida...Final polling for 2016 was Trump by 0.2 points. Trump won by 1.2 points. That's a net of +1.0 for Trump. Biden is currently polling at 1.7 points ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Biden up by 0.7 points.

Georgia...Final polling for 2016 was Trump by 4.8 points. Trump won by 5.1 points. That's a net of +0.3 for Trump. Biden is currently polling at 2.4 points ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Biden up by 2.1 points.

Iowa...Final polling for 2016 was Trump by 3 points. Trump won by 9.5 points. That's a net of +6.5 for Trump. Trump is currently polling 1 point ahead of Biden. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Trump up by 7.5 points.

Michigan...Final polling for 2016 was Clinton by 3.4. Trump won by 0.3 points. That's a net of +3.7 for Trump. Biden is currently polling 6.8 points ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Biden up by 3.1 points.

Nevada...Final polling for 2016 was Trump by 0.8 points. Clinton won by 2.4 points. That's a net of 3.2 for Clinton. Biden is currently polling at 6.4 points ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Biden up by 9.6 points.

North Carolina...Final polling for 2016 was Trump by 1 point. Trump won by 3.7 points. That's a net of 2.7 points for Trump. Biden is polling at 2.2 points ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Trump up by 0.5 points.

Ohio...Final polling for 2016 was Trump by 3.5 points. Trump won by 8.1 points. That's a net of +4.6 points for Trump. Trump is polling 0.2 points ahead of Biden. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Trump up by 4.8 points.

Pennsylvania...Final polling for 2016 was Clinton by 1.9 points. Trump won by 0.7 points. That's a net of 2.6 points for Trump. Biden is currently polling at 6.1 points ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Biden up by 3.5 points.

Wisconsin...Final polling for 2016 was Clinton by 6.5 points. Trump won by 0.7 points. That's a net of 7.2 points for Trump. Biden is currently polling 8.7 points ahead of Trump. If you use the 2016 difference that would leave Biden up by 1.5 points.

So...if you just use the difference that polling was off in 2016 it would leave the electoral vote at 336-202. This isn't the 2016 race as much as you guys would like it to be. That is not to say that Trump cannot win the election. I'd put his chances at about 1 in 10 as of today. That said, the dynamics of this race are considerably different. There was no pandemic mismanagement in 2016, there is no highly unpopular candidate like Hillary Clinton in 2020, there was no Trump fatigue in 2016.

but there is: ‘peaceful protests’
‘transitioning’ from oil
defund the police
lockdowns in blue states

Bullshit. You are putting your own flawed interpretation to my words. What I am saying is that younger and healthy people are in no danger of dying. And I said the elderly and the sick should be protected. If you want to blame somebody for the high death rate among nursing home patients blame politicians like Cuomo. Donald Trump is in no way responsible for their demise.

But shutting down the ecomomy and denying people's rights to assemble and forcing them to wear masks is punishing the entire population. It is a violation of our first amendment rights. The tactics proposed by the Democrats bear a remarkable similarity to the torture tactics used against P.O.W.s. @mctiger posted that fact somewhere in FSA not long ago.

And by the way. I have health problems that put me in the high risk category. I don't want the entire population to suffer economic hardships and loss of basic rights because of me.

So Bumbling Joe and his hooker running mate claim they have this great plan for covid right? If that were so wouldn't they be telling anyone what the hell it is?

Don't get hoodwinked by these two idiots, they don't have a plan and IF, IF they actually do and it IS some great thing then how many lives are on their hands for playing it close to the vest in hopes it wins them an election?

Here is the bottom line, People are going to die. That is just the way it is and once people get used to that things will go back to somewhat normal. We had a terrible ice storm roll through here last week. My son and his roomates are all shacked up in my house because they won't have power for days, probably weeks. Two of them tested positive for covid a few days ago and came home with mask on. I said "if I catch you in my house with one of those damn things on I will put you out in the street"

You cannot hide from this shit, you cannot run from it. No amount of lockdown or shelter in place or any of that foolishness will stop it. Have to get busy living or we all just wallow in the misery and I'm not having any of that.