(long post.. sorry, I'm at work and I keep typing a little, working a little, then going back to it.. etc)

Just because someone has military training doesn't mean they're excluded from the possibility of making mistakes. The point is (again), a gun can not and will not load itself and kill someone just because it wants to. In order for a rifle to fire a round and kill someone, even a faulty one, certain things MUST take place.

1) SOMEONE put a round in the chamber, and prepared the weapon to fire (safety on or not).
2) SOMEONE put the rifle in a position that it pointed somewhere that could potentially hurt or kill someone, with a round in the chamber.

What you're suggesting by saying guns kill people, is the equivalent of me dropping a safe on you that kills you, then emphatically stating that safes are dangerous and they kill people, or gravity even. After all, it caused the safe to accelerate at 32 ft/sec/sec until it crushed you.

Has Remington handled this as well as they could have? The jury is still out on that, and I'm sure we could start a whole other thread. Just like any manufacturer, it's within the realm of possibility that mistakes can be made. In this case, it was the Walker trigger mechanism, which Remington has stopped using. On another note, competition shooters around the world rave about that mechanism because of its smooth action which provides for a more accurate delivery of lead on target.

The fact still remains that guns don't just load, cycle, aim, and shoot on their own. It takes some interaction from a human being to make that happen which is precisely why those 4 rules of properly handling a firearm I posted earlier are so important; not just something you say to people to make it sound like you know what you're talking about. Go take up a gun training class anywhere. I just about guarantee you one of the first things you learn are some variation of those rules. Even the evil NRA is strong on their position that all firearms should be left unloaded when not being used. In their version of the rules, it's #3. According to Red, they'd just as soon have everyone toting RPG's and driving M1A1's to work.




But look at the bigger picture for a minute...

According to the CDC (2007), accidental firearms deaths comprise about 0.5% of the nations accidental deaths. And in this part of the thread, we are essentially talking about guns killing people accidentally (on their own).

With that, you are:

• 5 times more likely to burn to death
• 5 times more likely to drown to death
• 36 times more likely to fall to your death
• 48 times more likely to be poisoned
• 68 times more likely to die in an automobile accident

While sheer numbers of certain accidents have a bit to do with it, still we're talking about .5% of the nations accidental deaths. That's 613 out of approximately 123,706 accidental deaths.. I'd wager that it's an even more minuscule number that were snuffed out by a Remington 700 series rifle that's had a bad day and decided to shoot someone on their own.

Even in that context you have not said anything. Even guns that misfire don't kill unless A PERSON is not handeling the thing properly.

Are you Swerved? Just checking.

No.. I'm much more long-winded than that, as you no doubt can tell. :hihi:

here is an article on the Remington.
Deaths, injuries raise questions for popular Remington 700 rifle - USATODAY.com

What about a ricochet? Why has Remington settled numerous cases out of court and had the victims sign confidentiality agreements if it's user error? Why was there a recall, or as they call it, a "safety modification program" which is a recall because they don't want anymore legal trouble.

Safety Modification Program - Shotgun Safety Modification - Rifle Safety Modification


I get what you are saying by the way.

Another question. Do you think that all weapons should be legal, and all magazines?

Sorry, your righteousness. I was a little too literal. In a vast number of lawsuits filed on the issue it was discovered that there was nothing wrong with the car.

i think guns should be illegal if they do not pass certain safety standards (like firing without having had the trigger pulled).

and switchblades dont kill people but they are illegal for most people to have.

See the TF awards thread in The Roundtable. :hihi:

isnt that what all of us are doing?