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A Song of Ice and Fire

Discussion in 'The RoundTable' started by wjray, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. wjray

    wjray .-.. ..- -.- .

    I know there have been a few mentions on other threads and a couple of threads dedicated to individual books in this series, but I wanted to see if anyone was up for discussing the series as a whole.

    Disclaimer: For those of you who have seen A Game of Thrones on HBO but have either only read up to where the series just ended or haven't read the books, I anticipate there will be spoilers here. You've been warned.

    I've watched the series since its inception and just started reading the books following the close of the most recent TV version. I told myself I'd only read through the Red Wedding. Yeah, that held up.

    Just finished a Dance with Dragons and started on Game of Thrones again.

    A few observations: The TV series deviates some -- and will probably deviate more in coming years -- but still holds up well with the written word. In fact, the Red Wedding had a much more powerful impact on TV than it did on the page, for me. I can't wait for the Purple Wedding just to see that little douchebag choke on air.

    Tyrion is my favorite character but I don't like him being on the other end of the world. I understand why he had to leave and I'm sure he'll come roaring back when the time is right but I much prefer him in King's Landing.

    Varys is my second favorite character and I can only hope he doesn't have to disappear from the TV series like he did in the books.

    The other scenes I really want to see on the TV series include Dany riding her Drogon and Cersi's walk of shame. Tyrion's trial is going to be intense too.

    My prediction for how the series ends remains largely the same as before I started reading the books. Jon (who isn't dead, btw) will turn out to be Lyanna and Rheager's bastard. The promise Lyanna extracted from Ned on her deathbed was to protect her son and not let his parentage be known until/unless the time was right. Howland Reed is the only living person with knowledge of Jon's true parentage and will play a large part in the upcoming book.

    Dany will -- finally -- make her way to Westeros with her dragons and a fairly formidable army. I don't think Tyrion will accompany her, though, but rather will make his way back on his own.

    When Jon learns of his parentage, he will decide to take the Iron Throne himself -- the "assassination" having freed him from the vows. Both he and Dany doubt and fear the claim of Aegon and join forces to destroy him. They succeed and ascend the Iron Throne as equals -- maybe even married. Tyrion returns in the meantime and joins cause with either or both, but most importantly, against his House. When the dust settles, he's named Hand of the Realm.

    So, we'll end with a Targaryn and Stark on the throne, with Lannister support. Stannis is going to be a problem, though.
  2. TBTrumpet

    TBTrumpet Founding Member

    I just finished Dance with Dragons last night. I love this series! With all due respect to J.R.R. Tolkien, A Song of Ice and Fire and Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time are the two most epic fantasy series ever written.

    From the very beginning, I made the prediction that Jon Snow and Daenerys would somehow end up together at the end, as King and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Based on the number of main characters that have bit the dust, it looks that will most likely come to past.

    I also predicted that Mance Rayder was going to actually be Ben Stark... yeah I was completely wrong on that. But now I think that Coldhands is Ben Stark. The point is, I don't think he is dead and is going to finally reappear and have some impact on the story.

    Also I feel that the Hound, Sandor Clegane, isn't dead. He's just in hiding recovering from his wounds. He still has to kill is brother, The Mountain, who is also not dead, aka the new Robert Strong.

    The almost dead Catelyn Stark is going to linger long enough to strangle Cersei Lannistar with her bare hands.

    I think Sansa Stark will end up with Gendry. You know, just two kids, love at first sight, one thing leads to another....

    Daenerys has three dragons, which means there will be three dragonriders. One will be her, another will be Tyrion. There's just been too many mentions of him studying dragons his whole life. As for the last, I thought it might be Sandor for a while, but now I don't know. I guess the most obvious choice would be Jon Snow, him being a main character and all. Although I haven't ruled out Jorah Mormont.

    Jamie Lannistar and Breanne will end up together.

    Winter is coming!
  3. wjray

    wjray .-.. ..- -.- .

    Yeah, Ben is almost certainly Coldhands. And I also agree that the Clegane brothers aren't yet dead, despite the massive skull sent to Dorne.

    I do like the idea of Dead Cat taking out Cersi. Unlike Jamie, who is showing some real change in response to everything that's happened to him, she remains unbroken despite efforts to smack her down.

    I don't think Jorah is going to ride the third dragon. Dany no longer trusts him and if he makes it back to her she'll never put him in a position of such trust again.

    I hadn't thought about Sansa and Gendry but that makes sense. It would tie Stark and Baratheon again, but he would have to be legitimized before he could marry her, I'd think. Also there's the minor issue of Sansa already being married to Tyrion though that marriage was never consummated and could (I imagine) be annulled.

    I don't have any idea what's going to happen with Margery and the rest of the Tyrells though. They seem to be aligned with Varys, which could mean they won't object to a Targaryen taking the throne though Mace will be a problem.

    And I can't quite figure out how Arya is going to fit into the story. She certainly seems well on her way to becoming a Faceless Man but will she ever be a Stark again? And what about her direwolf?

    Bran probably stays beyond the Wall. Does Rickon ever come riding into King's Landing on Shaggydog's back looking for vengeance?

    I don't know that Jamie and Brienne will ever actually end up together sexually though they certainly could team up again to cause some serious trouble.

    This series could go on forever.
  4. TBTrumpet

    TBTrumpet Founding Member

    Arya's story arch was really good for the first three books, then fizzles out in the last two. How is an eleven year old master assassin going to fit into this story? I wouldn't expect her to grow up and turn into a regular medieval noble lady, but I'm not sure I like where her story arch is going.

    Bran's arch is probably the most pointless of all. Wonderful, you discovered the fairy people... yay... you get to become a half druid, half sentient tree... yay.... I really just can't get excited for that one.

    But I'm sure Eddard would be very proud of the young adults all his children have grown into.

    I can't wait to see the White Walkers smash the Wall. Its going to be EPIC!
  5. wjray

    wjray .-.. ..- -.- .

    I'm with you on Bran's story. I figure at some point it has to have some significance, but for now I'm just ready to have it done with. Maybe he'll be able to warg into a dragon? That would be interesting.

    Arya is a little certified badass, that's for sure, but, meh, sitting on the other side of the world, joining an ancient order of assassins, losing her sight and getting it back all before she "flowers"? Seems a little much to me.

    I think I posted earlier that I'm re-reading the series and I'm just at the point where Ned arrives in King's Landing. Knowing what's ultimately going to happen to him and his, he's such an idiot. Yes, he has honor. Yes, he's a strong person. Yes, he's supposed to be the ying to Robert's yang. But there's a difference between being honorable and being dense. He was the worst possible choice for Hand and his fate was sealed as soon as he left Winterfell.

    So let me ask this: Who do you think is the best at playing the game of thrones? Littlefinger orchestrated the murder of Joffery and not only got away with it (so far), but managed to remove (almost permanently) the Imp from the game. But he's relatively new to the game and is playing for himself. Varys, on the other hand, has been at it for quite some time and I can't think of anything that he's wanted to happen that didn't happen. He also looks to be unstoppable with his vast network of "little birds" (wonderful idea that, to use kids, Sherlock Holmes did the same thing, and kids are almost always invisible, especially "lower class" kids). But I think his influence wanes outside of King's Landing and he's almost powerless in the rest of the realm.

    Tyrion is probably the smartest of the three, but has been at it the least amount of time. And killing Tywin is going to impact him greatly, I think.
  6. TBTrumpet

    TBTrumpet Founding Member

    I'd say Varys is the best. He has been playing it the longest and the still has his head. Littlefinger is also a masterful player, but I think he is too smart for his own good. One day one of his overly complex plans will go wrong.

    Poor, poor Eddard. The deck was stacked against him from the start. If only Robert had let him stay in Winterfell, he could have lived a long and happy life with his family. Say what you want about Eddard, but he seven kingdoms desperately needs more men of honor especially with the great war that's about to begin.

    Cersei also played extremely well and has shown that she is her father's true heir. Her ruthlessness is just as great as Tywin's, all in the name of protecting her children.

    I hate Stannis Baratheon. He's just a whiney selfish dick.
  7. wjray

    wjray .-.. ..- -.- .

    I don't know that I'd say Cersei played extremely well. Yes, she got rid of her husband and installed her son(s) on the Iron Throne. But what she failed to realize -- but to be fair it was almost impossible to realize and absolutely impossible to prove -- was that she was only allowed to come to power by Varys because he knew she'd fuck it up. So while she thought she was a player, in reality she was only a pawn.

    Yes, if Ned would have stayed in Winterfell he likely would have had a long and relatively happy life. But I'm not sure Westeros needs more men like Ned. Westeros needs honorable men, to be sure, but also needs men who are practical and realistic. Kind of, I hate to say, like Jamie Lannister.

    I'm on board with you on Stannis. At some point you'd figure he'd dig out the stick that's firmly up his ass, but that day hasn't come yet. (But I have enjoyed seeing Stephen Dillane play him on the TV series. I've been a fan of his since the John Adams miniseries on HBO and got to see him live as Jacques in As You Like It a few years ago in Brooklyn.)
  8. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

    So, to the original post, don't your theories seem to be very predictable? I mean you poll most fans of this series and they would agree that Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon, and Howland Reed will come through with the info, and Dany will storm Westeros, Jon, Dany, and fill in the blank as the 3rd dragon rider, and Ice and Fire = Jon. But ask yourself this, doesn't that sound all nice and neat and perfectly packaged for the writer that wasted his main antagonist in the first book, wasted his eldest, crippled his next heir, and his wife, and stabbed the shit out of has bastard in the last book? I don't know what Martin plans on doing with the end of this series except go further north, and kill Jaime and Cersei at the same time, and that is pure speculation on my part. I mean by the time you get through a feast for crows it's almost a different series completely. It's completely unpredictable. I do agree it's great, and completely agree about the red wedding, it was much more brutal on screen. My favorite character is the red viper, he is the indigo Montoya of the book, and I cannot wait for this scene next season. Speaking of which.....


  9. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

    All the Starks come back as white walkers and rule shit. Winter is coming bitches. What you thought we was playing.
    wjray likes this.
  10. locoguano

    locoguano Fear the Beard.

    Martin said that the ending of the novels will be "bitter sweet". He also said that he will not allow someone to finish them if he dies before doing so... Therefore I assume that he will put a bullet in his mouth before he starts on the last chapter.

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