Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Winston1, Dec 31, 2012.
I'm so right wing. If I was a duck. My migration route would look like a NASCAR track.
Uhhh, NASCAR tracks turn to the left. You get everything bass ackwards.
Oval man! Oval. Looks like the track. Not fly like it. I don't even like NASCAR. Except for wrecks and fights. Thats pretty cool. And alcohol consumption and drunk half naked chicks.
I think the events of the past week merit the revival of this OP. According to his and his assistants words President Obama knew nothing of the IRS or AP and I'm sure the Fox news incidents until he read about them in the paper or heard about them on TV. He had no role in Benghazi or it seems anything negative. His lack of leadership has allowed the Syrian situation to boil over. (GUYS I am NOT saying we should have or should send troops into Syria but there are ways to lead without troops.) He is toadying up to Putin who from published reports think our president is a fool and a wimp. He blew the gun debate. He is allowing the immigration and other critical issues to be addressed without input.
Yet he gives speeches and poses for pictures. He is the most detached man in the world (with apologies to the most interesting man). He isn't even leading from behind.
I think his term in office has proven him to be an empty bag of air.
The sad news keeps on coming. This links to the DOJ Inspector General's report that substantiates the fact that a US Attorney leaked documents to smear the whistle blower who exposed the Fast & Furious gun running scheme that resulted in the murder of a customs agent with stolen guns.
These storys unveiled during these last weeks eventspaint a portrait that is truly sad and does no one any good. I don't think President Obama is a good president and believe he is a poor leader. There is no joy in finding these things because we are all poorer for them. I hope the Rs don't try to make these solely political events as that won't help. Likewise I hope the Ds are as disturbed by this as I am and pursue the information diligently no matter what is uncovered.
This is no longer time for posturing and point making but time for real leaders to stand up and clean up this mess. The IRS and DOJ issues are greater threats to our system and society than any financial or debt issue.
Whoa....wait a minute now. I have been very outspoken that these accusations need to be fully explored and any person found guilty of participating in the actions should, at the very least, lose their job and, if found to justify it, put in jail. that said, let's not blow this out of proportion before we have all the facts and the investigations have had a chance to run their course. I am as troubled by this as anyone and I am also very eager to get to the bottom of it but let's all take a deep breath for a second. This isn't a threat to our Nation as long as we get to the bottom of it and prosecute those who are found guilty, either by losing their job or jail time, which ever is appropriate. Our leaders are investigating the matter, in fact leaders from both parties, and I am sure that every stone will be over turned, especially given that half of the scandal deals with the media.
NC you I understand each one could be taken on its own as you want but look how many of these incidents are breaking at the same time. NC these are being started by Rs but they aren't. These are issues that his administration has brought on itself. As you noted I didn't accuse the president or his senior staff of starting them but they are responsible for the atmosphere that this occurs.
It is a threat if the Ds do it then the Rs take revenge as infinitum. It seems there is a loss of respect for institutions and the rule of law that is broad and deep. Not only should the individuals be brought to justice but the leaders who fostered or allowed this to happen need to bear some measure of responsibility and pay some price.
Read this NC. This is by Eugene Robinson a progressive columinist and routine defender of the administration. The Obama Administration has tried to use the foreign espionage act twice as often as it was used in the previous 90 years. It has only been used 3 times in the first 85 years and President Obamas Administration has used it 6 times in less than 5 years. He calls it not chilling but COLD.
This should raise concerns that what I am talking about is real and to be feared.
Winston, I have never denied that there is reason for alarm and that a full investigation should conducted and anyone found guilty should pay the price. This kind of bullying of the free press has been going on since 9/11 as the government has tried to reconcile maintaining safety of the citizens versus muzzling free speech. I am not saying that lines were not crossed but until we get the full story let's take a deep breath and chill out for just a second before we jump in head first.
I agree 100% that these kind of things are a real threat to a free society and the time has come to start challenging some of the government talking points about what it takes to keep us safe. This has now spanned two administrations and all of done under the auspices that they were doing these things to keep us safe. I believe everyone was willing to conceded some of their rights in order to stop terrorists from killing us but we've reached a point now where the citizens are ready to have their rights back. So maybe it is time we re-evaluate a lot of things.....like the patriot act, like indefinite detentions, etc.
I clearly recall in 2006 when all of my liberal friends were literally standing on their heads because they were so convinced that GWB and Dick Cheney were part of this vast conspiracy to take down the world trade center so they could eventually start a war in Iraq so they could get the oil so the Bush family could get richer and they were old friends with the Saudi Royalty and Blackwater and Haliburton and Plamegate and WMD's, blah, blah, blah, blah...you get the picture. Now we look back and out of all that hoo-la-ba-loo only Scooter Libby ever spent a day in jail or, for that matter, was ever tried for a crime. It wasn't for lack of Democrats standing at microphones to talk about the rights transgressions just as the Republicans are doing now. Back then I was saying let's wait for the facts to come out and that's all I am saying today.
I read this yesterday and Robinson is spot on. But let me ask you this, and I wouldn't ask this of just anyone because I don't think most people are sincere enough to give a straight answer: Do you think that any of this is politically motivated or do you think that in an effort to protect us from the bad guys our government has simply gone too far? I promise this is not a "gotcha" question; I honestly want to know. I have my own opinion but I want to hear yours first.