Military James Foley murdered by ISIS

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Winston1, Aug 21, 2014.

  1. Winston1

    Winston1 Senior Member

    I was in McDonalds this morning and it had Fox News on . One article was criticizing the president for the attempted rescue and then publicizing it. I disagree I support the effort and the follow up publication of the attempt.
    It is too bad it failed but that happens sometimes. The president should be given kudos for trying.
    It should also have been publicized after. It shows we take the lives of our citizens seriously and do our best to protect them. More importantly it should be a message to ISIS and the barbarians who lead it, that they are marked for retribution and cannot hide.
    That is all.
     
  2. shane0911

    shane0911 Veteran Member Staff Member

    So no trial?
     
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  3. uscvball

    uscvball Veteran Member

    Cannot disagree more. Special forces become a whole lot less effective the more we talk about what they do. The family likely knew about it and that's good enough in my book. The mention of isis members being killed during the raid was non-essential information. Of course the attempt was the right thing to do based on the intelligence they believed they had. What is concerning is the inaccuracy of that information.

    Oh, and the specops guys who performed that attempt may also be marked for retribution and it may feel like a lifetime of hiding for them.
     
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Not necessarily. Sometimes we spread disinformation for reasons of our own. Sometimes the threat of special ops works to force enemies to expend forces to protect their rear areas that they can't use in the main fight. Not all spec-ops are covert. There are times that we want the enemy to know that the threat exists. Sometimes they must be reminded that we can do things that they can't do shit about. And sometime the American people need to know that action is being taken. I mean, ISIS already knew about the raid. There were no secrets revealed to the enemy.

    Come on, no one was identified. No individuals are ever identified. It is no secret that we have special operations forces, are willing to use them regularly, and with little regard to borders or the concerns of third parties.
     
  5. uscvball

    uscvball Veteran Member

    ST6 operated effectively for years before the public really knew about them or what they did. The enemy only needs to know once. All the details that come out, serve to make them less effective. The less everyone knows, the better. Since ST6 was "exposed", how many have died? How many failed missions have their been?

    I said they were marked for retribution, not identified. But as long as someone knows who they are, there is a risk. It seems that writing books about it has become the norm. And if you think they don't spend the rest of their life looking in the rear view mirror or under their vehicle before getting in, think again.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    I have addressed this before. Seal Team six has never been a black unit. They have never been "exposed". They have been known about since their formation. Their existence has never been a secret. They are a SEAL team with an anti-terrorist mission. They are certainly not any less effective today, in fact they are on top of their game. Moreover, SEAL team 6 (or whatever they are calling themselves this week) leaks most of the details that are known about their missions. They get criticism from Delta and other covert operators because they like to get the credit.

    But their identities are protected. How does anybody know who any individuals are? Our enemies worry a lot more about our Spec-ops than our spec-ops worry about the enemy.
     
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  7. lsutiga

    lsutiga TF Pubic Relations

    Lmao.


    I actually give Obama props on this too. I'm ESPECIALLY liking his symbolically telling them to shove it up their ass by stepping up the attacks.
     
  8. uscvball

    uscvball Veteran Member

    Wrong.

    What I said was the public didn't really know much about them and that's a fact. The Maersk was the first well-reported mission and then after bin Laden it was an all out media assault. After that were books and movie deals. They operated for YEARS without getting that kind of attention and that's the way it should have stayed. Just a SEAL team? Hardly. They are hand picked from SEAL units and have to pass rigorous psychological tests...a cut above.

    Really? More SEAL's have been injured and killed since bin Laden then ever before. Not on the top of their game. This last mission to rescue Foley and others was a failure. Yes, failure. Obtain the objective or it's a failure. There is no other outlook. How did General Greene get so easily assassinated. He hand picked his security detail and it included SEALs.

    As you said, at one time they leaked purposeful misinformation. Today they are not the same unit. Those who write books and purport to make profit from their work are not well respected or liked among that community. Delta has a right to criticize.

    Protected by whom? Protected how? Computer files? I guess those are security proof? When information gets exposed, they all get exposed to an extent. I don't suppose I am explaining the psychology of it very well. Yes, they still look in the rearview and under the chassis....and they spend a shitload of money to secure their homes, inspect the grounds before entering. It doesn't let up.
     
  9. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

    It's OK to admit you were watching Fox News at home. You don't have to pretend it was accidental :)
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Because you say so? How am I wrong? I've known about Seal Team six for 30 years. It is NOT a black unit. Their existence is not a secret. Members of the team can be black operatives, existing outside military protocol, engaging in off-the-books operations, and bending or breaking international laws. Their operations are covert, but it is not an unacknowledged black program.

    Their first commander, Richard Marcinko wrote a best selling book about it in 1992, for heavens sake. Those who follow military affairs have known about ST6 since the early 80's, soon after its founding. bin Ladin only made them famous to people who never really paid attention before.

    Indeed. But they are still SEALs and a regular military unit, not a black civilian SOF unit like some of its counterparts in the CIA. There are lists of their known missions online at navyhandbook.org along with a lot of other information including their commanding officers. Their salaries are appallingly low for the work that they do, but I suspect they get covert bonuses.

    Source? Seals have been on a lot of missions and it is known that they took a lot of casualties in Panama. Most of their recent casualties came in a single downing of a helicopter. Shit happens. Units that don't take casualties are units that are not in that fight.

    There is no military unit that has never had failures. High-risk units undertaking high-risk missions especially. It in no way compromised their effectiveness. If you think they are off their game, you are misinformed.

    They are cocky. Taking some credit for their work is just part of their style. But they are highly respected among SOF for the way they do their business. They are very much the same unit. A second ago you praised them as a cut above, now they are disliked and disrespected?

    What has this to do with public acknowledgement of their presence on an operation long finished? Security is what it is regardless of whether or not a unit is publicly acknowledged. Records of SOF personnel are as protected as you can get.
     

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