Soviet Union survivor: President spits in face of every U.S. citizen

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by saltyone, Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. Contained Chaos

    Contained Chaos Don't we all?

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    I definitely support this idea, as I do eliminating 'under god' from the pledge since it was injected by McCarthy and not an original part of it.
    While I think that this would be a fantastic idea, it would never work. Too many people obsess over a politicians religious dedication. And I've never understood why, unless they want that particular politician to govern with his or her faith.
     
    Contained Chaos, Apr 16, 2009
    #81
  2. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    totally forgot about that, good point.
     
    LaSalleAve, Apr 16, 2009
    #82
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Well, I think freedom of the press applies here since the reader was not a government document. According to its own title page, it was privately published. It was also used outside the schools, you know. Moreover it treats the bible passages as literature, not as doctrine.

    But this is a reader, don't you see? It's not a textbook. It has excepts from famous literature for people to read in an era where libraries were scarce and books were expensive. The reader doesn't make anything from them except to provide reading material, of which the bible passages were only a small part.

    Nobody objects to bible passages being used in historical context or in literary context. It is an ancient and famous book with historical and literary value. It is its use as religious doctrine that causes problems. It is a rare library that doesn't include the Bible among it's available books. Banning the bible itself from schools would make no sense at all, but banning the practice of praying from it, teaching it's religious doctrines, or making it sacred in school is what is unconstitutional.

    It depends on the context. The Ten Commandments are religious laws, not secular laws and have no place in a courthouse as such. BUT . . . they have been ruled acceptable in public exhibits where multiple old laws are shown in a historical context. If they hang the Code of Hammurabi, Roman Law, The Magna Carta, and the Ten Commandments, along with the Constitution, then the court has ruled it to be fine.

    Would it be OK with you for an American judge of Islamic faith to hang the religious laws of Mohammed in his court? Would you feel that he would be fair and impartial to people not of his religion?
     
    red55, Apr 16, 2009
    #83
  4. mctiger

    mctiger RIP, and thanks for the music Staff Member

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    Semantics. Any book written and published specifically for educational use in a classroom is a textbook.

    DING!DING!DING! We have a winner! Exactly the point I made in my original post concerning the bastardization of freedom from religion. Someone objected to biblical passages in public texts, else we wouldn't have had a court ruling on the issue. And those are the people who have taken the wording "Congress shall make no law...." and twisted the meaning.

    Wow....that's a very closed-minded question coming from you. Are you suggesting he couldn't? Do you think I believe that this hypothetical judge might suddenly forget American law and sentence a convicted purse snatcher to have his hand cut off?
     
    mctiger, Apr 16, 2009
    #84
  5. Nutriaitch

    Nutriaitch Fear the Buoy

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    nobody said that schools should be "required" to have the moment of silence.

    everyone is saying it should be "allowed".

    A moment of silence is not endorsing any particular religion, or even the existence of religion as a whole.

    All it is, is a moment of silence that a student can utilize for whatever train of thought he/she wants to entertain. Nothing more, nothing less.


    By the way Red,
    Have you written to anyone in the State government, LSU administration, or LSU athletic department to complain yet?
    I've taken part in quite a few moments of silence in Tiger Stadium before football games.
    Surely that should be completely removed from a state funded institution and at a gathering of a State owned and operated building.
     
    Nutriaitch, Apr 16, 2009
    #85
  6. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    So what is the point in this? Do students get a better education by standing still for 30 seconds?
     
    USMTiger, Apr 16, 2009
    #86
  7. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    exactly, i would understand if the moment of silence was for our soldiers who have fallen. we should be teaching our kids to be free thinkers, and religion does not promote free thinking.
     
    LaSalleAve, Apr 16, 2009
    #87
  8. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    Yeah, it's annoying when people ask you follow up questions to your one liner opinions, isn't it?
     
    USMTiger, Apr 16, 2009
    #88
  9. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    You are mostly correct, but sometimes that isn't the case. I've been attending Sunday School with my wife at a Methodist Church, and we have very good discussions where free thinking is definitely encouraged. That was refreshing to see for a dyed-in-the-wool atheist like me. I never got that growing up in a nutcase Baptist church.

    I was very surprised when the Easter Sermon topic was that Christianity is on the decline in America, not because of the unbelievers and homosexuals and the ACLU, but rather because Christians tend to act like intrusive dicks (paraphrased) and this turns off the general public to the good parts of their message that they might have.

    The preacher made a good point that the religions in America tend to define themselves by what they condemn, instead of what they love.

    This is a large, mainstream, growing Methodist church, and it has gone a long way into restoring my hope for an enlightened period of Christianity, especially in the South.
     
    USMTiger, Apr 16, 2009
    #89
  10. Nutriaitch

    Nutriaitch Fear the Buoy

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    the rights of the kids.

    If kid A wants to pray, let him.
    If kid B wants to daydream about Kate Beckinsale naked, let him.
    If kid C wans to just dig in his nose, so be.

    How is forcing a religous kid to NOT pray any better than forcing a non-religous kid TO pray?

    Simple solution:
    Allow them 30 seconds in the morning.
    If you want to pray, then pray.
    If you don't want to, then don't do it.

    Now, no one has had any rights infringed upon.
    Kid A has the right to pray.
    Kid B has not been forced to pray.

    Win/Win situation.

    Of course that is way too easy and makes way too much sense for our government to ever actually do it.




    no.

    does the level of education drop if they're allowed to stand still for 30 seconds?
    no.

    is anyone hurt by allowing it?
    no.

    has anyone's rights been violated if it is allowed?
    no.
     
    Nutriaitch, Apr 16, 2009
    #90
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