2017 DT Tyler Shelvin Commits to LSU

Discussion in 'LSU RECRUITING' started by LSUDad, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. EyeoftheTiger 2015

    EyeoftheTiger 2015 Senior Member

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    Don't know if you read the interview a while back with Mike Detillier about the Haley/Orgeron situation but first to Orgeron, MD said that he goes back a long time with him...I believe they might have gone to HS together. Regardless, he says that while Orgeron gets his due on recruiting what most people overlook is he is as good as there is a DL coach from a technical point of view. Detillier liked Haley OK but said that Haley isn't the DL coach that Orgeron is. One example he gave was since he covers pro football more than college, he inquired to Chicago Bears players about Haley and what they thought of him when he coached DL coach. They didn't trash the guy but did have one big criticism...the Bears players said that Haley's technique was really simple...too simple. Basically, he taughtjust one move to get around the OL on pass rushes. If he isn't good on teaching technique that could explain why the last few years, the opposing QBs had time to go back and get extra mustard on their hot dogs while scanning the field on pass plays. LSU's pass rush has been pathetic lately which is why I believe LSU finished 12th in a 14 team SEC in sacks in 2014.
     
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  2. asignupe99

    asignupe99 Founding Member

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    The NFL wants them because while they often need a lot of work, they are very teachable players with very little to no baggage. Guys like Brockers and Logan would be top 5 picks with better teaching. Even Mingo (who had really good numbers) was drafted super high based more on being a freak athlete and his potential. He's been okay as a player but hasn't broken out yet. I think it's coming because his motor is still nonstop.
     
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  3. old school

    old school Veteran Member

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    I think our DL has lagged due to a combination of things: position coach, early departures to the NFL, defensive philosophy, etc. Especially when we faced a mobile QB, Chavez wanted to contain him more than pressure him. I look forward to seeing more DL pressure under the new coaches. I wish we would stunt more, as it can create confusion and lead to more hurries without using an additional rusher. I can understand a reluctance to play man coverage and blitz with an exceptional running QB though. The DB's don't realize the QB is running until he is 10 yards down field sometimes.
     
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  4. EyeoftheTiger 2015

    EyeoftheTiger 2015 Senior Member

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    Yeah, what was frustrating about Chavis' defense on 1st down and 2nd down was usually outstanding. Then, the opponents had LSU right where they wanted them...3rd and long. How many times did a mediocre ND convert on 3rd and 8, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 11, 3rd and 14? My God, you are almost never supposed to convert 3rd and longs. All season long, Chavis allowed too many of those to be made. What I noticed is that LSU only rushed 4 all the time on 3rd and longs...I wouldn't do that but IF you do, you have to then use the guys that you don't blitz to man the 5 to 7 yard zone to make tackles related to the QB taking off or short passes to backs. What Chavis did was to rush 4 and drop the other 7 back past the sticks. That means the ball carrier gets a running start and if the first guy misses him, 1st down. Also, with the deep drops, the WRers who had been pressed on 1st and 2nd down were like 8 yards off on 3rd and long.

    I don't think Chavis is worth squat as a DC at getting teams off the field on 3rd and longs. That is exactly why TN fans a decade ago nicknamed him "3rd and Chavis"! More proof of a lack of aggressive defense would be turnovers and sacks. LSU I believe was 11th in INTs and 12th in sacks in the SEC. I agree with your stunting statement also. I noticed that and quite frankly can't remember the last time LSU stunted on ANY pass rush. That is probably on Brick Haley and probably goes to Detillier's comments that Haley's teaching of DL really was incredibly simple.
     
  5. TwistedTiger

    TwistedTiger Founding Member

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    I read it. However Orgeron is pretty well known as a great DL coach. I think that secret has been out. I've posted for years that I wasn't impressed with Haley and what he was doing with the wealth of talent LSU regularly has at DL. Great recruiter, but not great at developing talent nor getting the most out of the talent he has.
     
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  6. EyeoftheTiger 2015

    EyeoftheTiger 2015 Senior Member

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    I'm not quite as down on Haley as you are but understand your point for sure. Michael Brockers was not highly recruited and he improved dramatically or was underrrated dramatically out of HS. Same with Bennie Logan. I thought Ego Ferguson improved quite a bit. But yeah, Anthony Johnson for whatever reason never was any better than an average SEC starting DT...and he was a high 5* by everyone out of HS. Danielle Hunter the same as Brockers and Logan above at DE, although I thought his SO season was better than his JR one. Rasco I thought improved also. But then we move to Gilmore and Herron...highly rated guys who in 2 years have been complete busts up to this point. Bain and Neal may or may not pan out. Sam Montgomery was pretty much of a joke who was overhyped and never improved which is why he was a quick bust in the NFL. So, for sure, the picture is mixed on Haley. In general, I think he did better with DTs than DEs...mainly because he wasn't very good at teaching pass rushing skills but better at teaching how to stop the run.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  7. randysr

    randysr Freshman

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    I've gone to watch Tyler Shelvin play at NHS last season he's gonna be special . Tyler is nasty good he reminds me of Glen Dorsy a lot . Can't wait to see him wreaking havoc in the backfield when he gets his chance to play!
     
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  8. Brian

    Brian Founding Member

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    Yup. Mike is very good friends with Ed Orgeron. Bobby Hebert and Ed Orgeron were teammates at South LaFourche and roommates together at Northwestern State. Mike's done radio work for WWL for years now first with Buddy D then Bobby Hebert when Buddy passed away. Ed's been a frequent guest and source for Mike and Bobby over the years.. especially when Ed was head coach at Ole Miss and when he left USC after the Kiffin debacle.

    Good stuff.
     
  9. Brian

    Brian Founding Member

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    I'm very curious to see how Ed does as an actual position coach.

    We all know he's a tremendous motivator of men and an incredible recruiter, but during his year stint with the Saints he was not well-regarded at all. What shocked me was what Sean Payton had to say after Ed left and he did so publicly which is highly unusual for coaches to speak of another coach in a public forum. Sean did so though and it was negative. He said he was having to essentially retrain the DL on some techniques that Ed drilled them wrong on.

    Now, it could be there was a huge style clash there between Ed and Sean. Each man has a tremendous ego and very big persona to go with it. Maybe Sean was taking a shot since he knew Ed would go back to college and it wouldn't hurt him. Don't know. Most DL coaches are frenetic guys who motivation is a huge part of their job, but it stuck out to me. So I'm curious to see.. he's tutored hall of fame players before, and Ed certainly is widely regarded as a quality coach.. Dunno.
     
  10. TwistedTiger

    TwistedTiger Founding Member

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