I agree with most of what you are saying, but does being elitefor a few years and above average a few years equate to elite pay every year every year? I have no problem with a rebuilding year every so often, but how long do you let a top 5 paid coach deliver top 25 results?

so do you suggest Miles gets paid based on how well he does and not a flat salary? I can live with that. So he needs to pay back about 6 million dollars, cool there is Crowton's buyout, and the money for his replacement, and then some.

I think this is more of a problem with the upward trending of coaching salaries, something that started, in earnest, about 10 years ago when Jimmy Sexton convinced LSU to pay $1 million to Nick Saban.

I mean, when June Jones at SMU is raking in a million dollars a year NOW, then this is an issue of coaching salaries being out-of-hand, rather than coaches (being paid what the market will allow) having ups and downs.

Those rankings justify the salary, but how many years of NR and #17 are acceptable? How long is mediocre football worthy of top 5 pay?

The NCs in 03 and 07 spawned this discontent just like it did in '58. Maybe you younguns need a dose of 3-8 and 4-7 to make you appreciate what you've got. Miles is the coach. Deal with it or move on. Look forward to some football and quit acting like spoiled brats. I'm sick of reading the same whiney crap over and over again.

Happy is the one who learns to bear what he cannot change! - J.C.F. Von Schiller

red55
Well let's look at the 20 year span before the start of the dark ages...
(first rating is highest attained, second is final ranking)

MIKE ARCHER
20 1988 #09 #19 08-04-0 HOF Bowl [SEC CHAMPION]
19 1987 #04 #05 10-01-1 Gator Bowl

BILL ARNSPARGER
18 1986 #05 #10 09-03-0 Sugar Bowl [SEC CHAMPION]
17 1985 #08 #20 09-02-1 Liberty Bowl
16 1984 #07 #15 08-03-1 Sugar Bowl

JERRY STOVALL
15 1983 #13 --- 04-07-0
14 1982 #06 #11 08-03-1 Orange Bowl
13 1981 --- --- 03-07-1
12 1980 --- --- 07-04-0

CHARLES MCCLENDON
11 1979 #13 --- 07-05-0 Tangerine Bowl
10 1978 #10 --- 08-04-0 Liberty Bowl
09 1977 #16 --- 08-04-0 Sun Bowl
08 1976 #11 --- 07-03-1
07 1975 --- --- 05-06-0
06 1974 #07 --- 05-05-1
05 1973 #07 #13 09-03-0 Orange Bowl
04 1972 #06 #11 09-02-1 Bluebonnet Bowl
03 1971 #09 #11 09-03-0 Sun Bowl
02 1970 #05 #07 09-03-0 Orange Bowl [SEC CHAMPION]
01 1969 #08 #10 09-01-0

01-05 Elite
06-10 Damn Strong
11-15 Also-ran
16-25 Mediocre
26--- < Mediocre

In the 20 years leading up to the dark ages...
FINISHED...
Elite: 1x
Damn strong: 3x
Also-ran: 5x
Mediocre: 2x
< Mediocre: 9x

At our highest point in the season we were considered...
Elite: 3x
Damn strong: 10x
Also-ran: 3x
Mediocre: 1x
< Mediocre: 3x

So we ended more than 50% of the seasons mediocre or less. But at one point in the season we were considered damn strong or better 65% of the time and we were only considered mediocre or worse throughout the season 20% of the time. We also went to a bowl right around 50% of the time.

One main problem I have, especially knowing now that we have the potential, is that we only finished elite one season, and under Mike Archer at that, and we were only considered an elite team (at our highest point) 3 times over those twenty years.

The other main problem is that this seems to indicate that over those twenty years we almost always finished worse than we expected and that we were SEC champion only 3 times over that 20 year time span.

I am afraid that Miles is bringing us back to those 20 years before the dark ages. There are worse fates to suffer, I suppose, but considering our resources and the support our program enjoys (we are rated #7 by Forbes this year) should we really be ok finishing worse than #15 more than 50% of the time? I still contend that those dark ages were a result of trying to be more than we were previously, and ultimately, it worked.

--

I understand the positive folks don't believe we are on a downward trend, OR that even if we are, we haven't been on enough of a downward trend for a long enough time to warrant firing Miles.

Us negatigers believe we can derive enough information from what we have seen to know with enough certainty that a change needs to be made. There are some in the middle who aren't as certain, but while they aren't willing to call for Miles to be fired, they want to see Crowton go.

Really, all either camp can do is wait and see. Miles has been a good representative of our program (besides not always being respected nationally for his coaching ability), so I can understand those who want to give him the benefit of the doubt. If it were my call, I'm not sure I could pull the trigger. I imagine I'd give him another year. The big money buyout makes it that much easier to wait it out (I assume).

Back to the original questions...

If they repeat this year's results next year, that is OK. But I want a new OC the next year (2011) and a strong recruiting class. If it fails to improve and repeats 9-3 again, I would wait another year as long as recruiting is looking good to let the OC get a fair shot. After that... I would probably wait again. 9-3 is pretty good.

The main thing that makes me want to keep Miles is (you are going to laugh...) the quality of play is much better under Miles than in the past 20 years. And that includes the Satan era.

There have been 4 beat downs in the Miles era. I am talking about games where you shake your head and wonder if we played against a pro team or WE actually are a high school team. The kind of beat down that Spurrier honored us with many times in the 90s. Under Miles the beat downs were: the first SECC against UGA, and the 3 beat downs in 08 (UF, UGA, and OM). That's it. In the Miles era, we play everyone tight. Except for the pick-6 Lee year, we were in pretty much every game. Not many blew us out.

In the Satan era, there were a number of butt kickings. 00-AU, 00-UF, 01-UF, 02-Virginia Tech, 02-AU, 02-Bama, 04-UGA. These beat downs happened year after year much in the same fashion as they happened in the 90s against great teams. There were very few close games (much less wins) against great teams. We weren't there yet until 03 but even in 04 we can all agree we weren't that strong. I am sure that the 09 version of the Tigers would stomp the 04 Tigers.

I am spoiled. I don't want to go back to the Satan era or the Dinardo era. I like a competitive team that shows up for every game and plays hard. There may be weaknesses, but the coach has shown the ability to address them. He benched Lee, the dropped the two-headed monster. He should get the O fixed next year based on his history of "righting the ship".

We are there. We are at the level where we "sniff" the SECC game each season. Unlike what was posted in a few posts in the very long thread that we did not "sniff" the SECC game this season, I don't see how anyone can't say that we did not compete for it this year. We were a few cramps, a broken collar bone, and an instant replay away from knocking off the SECW champs. Beat Bama, and everything changes. The ole miss debacle never happens and TCU plays UT for the BCS championship. We did more than "sniff" it. We competed for it with a crappy O-line, weak D-line, and a young QB.

Keep Miles. Fire Crowton if that is what Miles thinks will fix things. If he doesn't, then lets hope for the best and trust Miles. I don't want to return to the days of beat downs.

Dude, great post!!! Only thing is the whole fire GC part. If GC is on board, and no one wants him on board, no one wins. Not CLM, not the team, and not tiger nation.

Everything else, I agree with. Hopefully, CLM does right the ship, and weathers the storm for one season with GC until he can move on to another OC. The 2011 recruiting class looks huge already, so the horizon is bright. Things will get expedited if we can somehow get rid of GC in the interim, and hire someone like Grogan. Then we will see a complete team, and not have to wait until 2011. D..d.d.ddd...dddhats i'm talkin' about.