A serious question regarding LSU baseball....

Discussion in 'The Tiger's Den' started by STRIPES, May 8, 2005.

  1. STRIPES

    STRIPES Founding Member

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    I have question about this LSU baseball staff and player development particularly regarding pitchers. Many fans bash Smoke but I want to look at the LSU baseball situation from a staff perspective particularly our "ace" recruiter, Turtle Thomas.

    For the last couple of years we have been told by Smoke and staff (particularly Turtle on B.R. radio) that LSU has recruited some of the top pitchers in the country and that LSU was going to have a tremendously deep staff, etc. Well, in all fairness, that appears to be incorrect for one reason or another. The question is why? Did LSU's staff
    misjudge the talent level of that many pitching prospects or are they simply not developing under this staff? Based on the recruiting done in other areas
    of LSU's team, I am leaning toward a problem with talent evaluation and recruiting.

    Either way, the responsibility falls to this coaching staff and as far as recruiting goes, I am tired of hearing how great a recruiter Turtle Thomas is because quite honestly I think the guy is vastly over-rated. In addition, regarding Turtle, other schools must also agree that Turtle isn't "all that and a bag of chips" because he has missed out on every head coaching job he has applied for in the past. This is a guy who has been on staffs at Miami & LSU and been part of several national championships but he can't get a head coaching job anywhere. There must be something there that schools don't like.

    In any event, there are some serious questions about this current LSU baseball staff and remember that Smoke had to keep some of these guys around when he took the job as that was a requirement from Skip.
     
  2. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    Look at the recruits that opted for the draft. Look at LSU's record during Turtle's tenure. Look at LSU's accomplishments during that same period. Not winning the CWS does not mean that a team is under achieving. There are hundreds of schools participating in Div 1 baseball. LSU is in the top 10 during that period. I don't see a problem.
     
  3. STRIPES

    STRIPES Founding Member

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    Truthfully most of LSU baseball's success happenede PRIOR to Turtle....

    Turtle Thomas didn't arrive in Baton Rouge until after the Warren Morris homerun in 1996. I don't give Turtle any credit for inheriting that team which repeated as National Champs in 1997 as they were recruited before he arrived.

    In addition, giving Turtle kudos for recruiting kids that damn near everyone knows are going to wind up signing MLB contracts in the 1st place is a little much. So he signed a bunch of good "no shows". It's the ones who do show up that I question.

    In addition, if you possibly heard Turtle on B.R. radio last week he was already getting fans ready for a probable dropoff next season. He was talking about the talent on this team and mentioned a couple of times that LSU would be rebuilding next season as LSU loses so many starters off this team.
    Man, this is a baseball program that shouldn't be "rebuilding" after a season like we are having. Hell, this year is what I would expect a "rebuilding year to look like. I have my doubts about the true talent that is on this baseball team,
    particularly many of the younger players who just simply don't seem to be developing under this staff as they did in the past. JMO.
     
  4. JayB

    JayB Never Forget 31

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    Like SF said, you have to realize just HOW many would-be LSU players have gone in the first few rounds the past few years--it's unfortunate for the kids, I think. These kids will never be able to fully develop and they get caught up with all of the $$$. Don't blame Turtle because the MLB is so lucrative to these kids. Remember guys like Jon Zeringue? That guy would have made more money up front had he signed out of high school, but being at LSU VASTLY increased his chances of developing. I'm against kids going to the Majors right out of HS--especially pitchers (which always kills LSU.) Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
     
  5. STRIPES

    STRIPES Founding Member

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    O.K. JayB, then what is your belief as to why there is such a lack of development?

    If, as you think, the talent level is so good at LSU right now then why aren't we seeing any of the younger players developing?

    Where are all the "great young pitchers" that Turtle has raved about publicly
    on the radio? Hell it can't be both ways. You can't give the guy credit for being a great recruiter and then ignore his own statements that he made on live radio about how this would possibly be the best staff ever at LSU, etc.

    Here LSU is struggling to find 3 pitchers to pitch on SEC weekends and the rest of the staff is where? Say what you want and defend the staff any way you want but when a coach makes blatent remarks about his players and team and then it doesn't happen, questions will arise. Personally, I think Turtle is over-rated. You can think what you like.
     
  6. JayB

    JayB Never Forget 31

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    Re: O.K. JayB, then what is your belief as to why there is such a lack of development?

    Why aren't we seeing development... That's the million dollar question buddy. No one knows for sure. LSU is struggling to find 3 pitchers to pitch on sec weekends you say? The only struggle I see is opposing teams' batters against Smith and Dirks.
     
  7. cajdav1

    cajdav1 Soldiers are real hero's

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    Recruiting in college baseball is the biggest crapshoot of all the sports due mostly to the high school draft. It's very hard to compete with the pro's. And one of the problems is trying to figure out which players are actually going to be drafted real high and which ones are not. LSU has lost several signees the past few years that were not expected to be drafted as high as they were.

    All teams go through this, which is one of the reasons there is so much parity in college baseball. I wonder if the NCAA should institute some kind of rule like they have for basketball whereby if a kid doesn't remove his name from the draft he than cannot play in college or has to sit out a year or something of that nature.
     
  8. scrappy

    scrappy Founding Member

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    In baseball I have no problem with kids going straight to single A or Rookie league or whatever it may be. It's better than going to college and not getting a fair gauge on what you can do in reality b/c you are swinging an aluminum bat. These guys put up these rediculous numbers in college. Hell Patterson is nearly hitting .400. Many of the boppers in LSU's lineup are hitting over .350. This is b/c of the bat they are swinging. I'm not saying they are not talented, but you don't get an honest gauge on talent. I like seeing guys go straight to one of the the lower levels of the minors. The rookie leagues and all those smaller leagues are good for them. It doesnt quite throw them to the dogs right away, but it allows them to develop. When you go into one of those lower levels of the minors it's basically like going to college and getting paid. Most of those guys are on the same level you are.
     
  9. u r tigerbait22

    u r tigerbait22 Founding Member

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    Like always i'm putting my 2 cents in...


    OK the remark about barely finding 3 SEC pitchers was ridiculous. Lane Mestepey has been as dominant as dominant can be before the 2nd half of this year. That's including his whole career of course. He's in a funk right now that i have confidence he'll get out of. Dirks has been dominant this year (w/ the exception of yesterday...but hey everybody has bad days). Last year, in his freshman year, he was dominant until he hit a wall. Greg Smith has recorded a scoreless past 25 1/3 innings, and 3 straight complete game victories coming into today. That's domination. These 3 are pretty damn good weekend starters if you ask me.

    Now to the rest of the staff...

    Jason Determann has been having an all-american type year. If you disagree, then you're flat out dumb. Faircloth, though shaky a couple times, as also had a stellar season. The young FRESHMAN talent of eric english has started to develop into a very good long relief guy. Between Meier and Brandon Nall (who before arm surgery was the most prolific closer in college baseball), both guys have had some very good midweek outings and some shaky ones. Meier just needs more work put in, but w/ the GREAT staff that we have, its very hard. Except a couple shaky outings, Edgar Ramirez has also been a stud out of the 'pen. He throws very hard and he has dealt with pressure situations very well. Chris Cahill has not done a bad job when being put in, either. He just doesn't get much work. Theres also a guy by the name of Michael Bonura who's on the shelf b/c of a surgery also. Wait until he gets on the field!

    Now, for the rest of coach Thomas's recruiting...

    He picked up a stud SS by the name of Michael Hollander out of Jesuit. This kid is going to be something special. Another one that will be a star is big Jordan Mayer. He has power, great bat speed, and his huge. There was much talk of moving him to catcher for next season.


    So scrappy, stripes, and whoever else...i dont know what LSU team you're watching. :tigbas: :lsup: :geauxtige LSU!
     
  10. scrappy

    scrappy Founding Member

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    I never said anything about the LSU staff. I was commenting on players going straight to the pros. If I had to comment about LSU's staff, I'd say that the 3 starters are all SEC caliber pitchers. I agree that Lane is great but in a funk right now. My comment was about players leaving early in general. Nothing to do with LSU.
     

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