1. many posters in this thread were obviously drunk when posting.

2. how is an athiest one who doesnt not belive in god, and an agnostic one that isnt sure? seems like the same definition to me.

3. ignorance and intelligence are largely different characteristics. the educated have only a slightly greater claim on intelligence that the non-educated (because of social issues). besides, this pew survey only addressed knowledge/ignorance, not intelligence. im not sure what to take from the survey except that most people are ignorant---wow, news flash. can someone find the survey where 80% of americans with a high school diploma cant find the UK on a globe and half cant find the US?

4. the religious that are intelligent are athiests that have just not yet overcome their social attachments to worship.

Come on man…this horse was decomposing. Did you really need to kick it?

better than "discussing" politics

if only "some" agnostics believe in god then some agnostics dont believe in god and are therefore just like athiests as you define --"believe God does not exist "

i find it difficult to accept your definition of agnostics because it includes fundamentally different views. i find it difficult to accept your definition of athiests because i dont believe a significant # of people will think they can know that god does not exist. athiests are rational people, possibly to a fault. it is only the socially/psychologically encumbered religious that think they can know that god exists.

you are an anomaly. aren't you into comics and punk rock also, sci fi movies and stuff like that? but a catholic pro lifer at the same time.

i have tried to explain the flaws in the definitions to red a zillion times.

we are all born atheist, without belief or knowledge. we never acquire any knowledge, but some of us mistakenly think we do. smart people resist the lies and stay atheist.

the only rational position is to admit you are ignorant, and therefore have to no reason to believe. red defines this as agnosticism, but i define it as atheist, because you are without belief.

the atheist that is absolutely certain god does not exist is so rare that i have never heard of such a person.

but there is a difference between because agnostics have a want to believe. **** i just sounded like Miles. Anyway atheists, no way there is a god, agnostic, i don't know if there is a god or not, but i would like to think there is.

I think I am an Pantheist.

all of that is incorrect.