On a strictly technical level I think Newdow's case is probably correct. James Madison was so steadfastly opposed to religion in government that he opposed chaplains in the military. However, I don't see much harm in a Christian president asking a Christian minister to say a 2 minute prayer at his inaugural. James Newdow should pick his battles a little better than that.
this is an opinion i can respect. religion has it's place. it is for churches, and your houses, and we can argue it and talk it over all we want in places like this. but not in a ceremony marking the change of the leader of our government. i would never favor the government advocating or furthering my opinions on religion, and i do not know why anyone would. i think some of you see prayer as kind of a generic thing, that is not so disagreeable, but imagine if the prayers became so specific as to advocate a particular denomination of christianity at the expense of another. wouldnt that be wrong? that is what it is already like for non-theists. and the government should not take a stand of any kind on such matters.
i agree completely. this is not a big issue, more of a symbolic one. it is not a big deal. and i am not sure if i like this dude, newdow, he seems a bit sketchy. the "under god" issue with his daughter and the pledge of allegiance, that was a bigger issue. still though, it is pretty damn important that we recognize how smart it is that the state and religion never become intertwined, so even small issues like this one deserve attention. so in that sense i appreciate what newdow is doing, keeping this issue alive, reminding chrisians that not everyone is christian, which i think people tend to forget, especially in a community like BTR.
Originally Posted by MFn G I M P I don't think there should be a prayer at the inaguration. Religion is something personal between yourself and God ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This makes no sense, none... So if the president is religious and wants to have a prayer present during the inaguration you are going to deny him his rights? What about the hand on the bible? I have read most posts here and Martin my friend I could almost agree with your post about conservatives and the issue of prayer and religion and have less in government except for the fact that this country was founded on "In God We Trust" and similar "spiritual" rituals such as prayer when congress meets, etc. Some of you are confusing prayer and religion, phrases like under god for one religion or another when it could be used to describe anyones god. To each his own but I totally disagree with people who want to change the principles that this country is founded on. These are the same people who want to change things from Merry Christmas to Merry Xmas or Happy Holidays only. All of these founding principles have been here for over 200 years and no one had a problem with it until the 80's. This country is being attacked by these people and the ACLU and sadly its a matter of time before we help the ACLU destroy our great country. You ask me why I say this? Did you know that the ACLU can sue this country for various reasons and it doesn't cost them a dime win or lose? The tax payers split the bill, I forgot where its listed but I heard a talk radio show talking about this same thing a while back. Better be careful what U ask for because once all this stuff starts, who is able to turn this ship around and turn the off switch off? We now see what happens when things go to far with political correctness etc.? Don't we see examples of this stuff now days in everyones lives? Someone, please answer me, where does this stuff stop? What price are we going to have to pay? because these things always goes to far IMHO
The supreme court can always turn back the clock... they have done it many times. Ever wonder why the seat in the Supreme Court (Rhenquist near retirement) is so important. Roe v Wade could be overturned with a liberal judge, whereas it will more than likely stand if a conservative judge sits. Besides if we never questioned or criticized the acting administrations policies and the general "way things are done", we would never have any change. We would still have slavery, no womens lib, no children labor laws... catching my drift. Just because something has been done for 200 years, doesnt make it right.
Sourdoughman, are you being deliberately blind? I posted the words of the Bill of Rights's principal architect, James Madison, that make it very clear that the Constitution intended a separation of church and state, and yet you're still harping on with bogus claims about this country being founded on Christian principles? You're factually incorrect on so many fronts, where should I begin? YOU'RE WRONG The first treaty our government ever signed said quite specifically that our country was not founded upon the Christian religion. YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN "In God We Trust" was voted in by Congress in 1956, and added to our money in the 1960's, after Christian rightwingers gained control of Congress and grew alarmed at the rise of "godless Communism." Whether or not a prayer for Bush violates the First Amendment is problematic, but there's no doubt that the First Amendment intended church and state separation, and there's no doubt you like to distort actual history.
Our Consttution was framed to grant us the "unalienable Rights" rights that were "endowed by the Creator." To keep God out of Government or public office is one step away from denying the rights mentioned in the Declaration.
Jefferson's "Creator" is not your "God." Any prayer beseeching your God to assist, guide, influence, sway, intercede, interfere, change course, squash our enemies, bless us, smile on us, or whatever else would not be in line with Jefferson's notion of what the Creator is or does. If Jefferson or Madison or anybody else wanted this to be a Christian country, they would have very easily included "Christian" or "Jesus" in the documents. I don't know what could be more obvious.
Let's see what George Washington had to say about christianity. Now a little James Madison Leonard Levy said this on the origins of the establishment clause: http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/religion/religion.html edited to add the website I got all of this from.
