Do you care that the government tracks your phone calls?

I wonder how many people who are upset about this get detailed phone bills showing a list of all the incoming and outgoing calls they make, like I do. I wonder how many people, like me, don't always shred the bill like we are supposed to and throw it in the trash and put it on the curb. In a sense, in doing so, I'm saying I really don't care who knows who is calling me or who I am calling.

I also think it is very naive to think we have any privacy when it comes to communicating via phone, whether it be a land line or cell phone. Surely we understand someone somewhere knows every call we make and receive? Not only do I understand who I call isn't private, I also understand what I say is not protected either. I've had instances where I'll be talking to someone, and all of a sudden the lines get crossed and I'm talking to a complete stranger, or I'm listening in on someone else's call. Bottom line, I don't discuss any crimes or terrorist activities over the phone.

So, the NSA is monitoring calling patterns. When the government uses the information gained to falsely accuse and violate the rights of an American citizen, I'll be the first to get in line to raise hell. Until then, I'll look at it this way. We are in a declared "war on terrrorism" in this country. I look back at the previous wars the United States has been involved in. Things like the draft, the rationing of even the most basic items in WW II like sugar, fruits, vegetables, beans etc.; Americans have a history of giving up some things during times of war. If the government wants to know who is calling who and requires me to get to the airport a few minutes earlier in an effort to protect Americans, I really don't mind. I've got a cupboard full of sugar and other food and they aren't forcing people into military service. We've really got it pretty good compared to past generations.

But, you say, those men in past wars fought for our freedom from things like this! Well, I say, take WW I for example. That generation fought and sacrificed for our freedom. Their sacrifice didn't prevent the next generation from sacrificing as much or more to preserve the freedom and security of America. The fight to maintain the greatest country the world has ever seen has been, is, and always will be an ongoing struggle. The enemies of this country may change, the types of sacrifices the American people must make may change, but the fact that some sacrifices to protect America must be made will not change.

Tracking phone calls is a non-issue, unless it is being used to falsely accuse American citizens. I say we wait to cross that bridge if we ever come to it. I think a much greater danger facing this nation is the constant effort by politicians (on both sides) and the media politicizing the security of America. That's where the American public's attention should be directed.

 

I'm really surprised that after 9/11 this would be news.
Whether its a Bush plan or not doesn't matter, just gives another reason
for people to bash him.
I'm not taking up for Bush here either, I'm pissed at him for several reasons
and would rather see Cheney run the country if the truth be known.
1) Iraq
2) Borders
3) His illegals program

Back to the subject...
If Bill Clinton was president he would've done the same thing.
Lets quit playing partison politics here and realize that we are too busy
blaming each side and are not united.
What the president did is in reaction to 9/11 and is perfectly rational.
I don't like it either but its our own fault just like the patriot act.
WE should vote every bastard who voted for this crap out of office or
we DESERVE what we get.
This is why we need term limits to get our country back or you can kiss it
Goodbye.
There is no privacy anymore, End of story...
Ask those people in NO who had their guns taken from their own houses.
I bet they didn't get them back unless they were registered!
Email, U name it...
They know when and how much money you take out of the bank and
they know how much you spend when you use a credit card.
They even know what you purchase, on what day and what time not to mention
the cameras at every intersection.
Wake up America! Privacy is no more!

 

They want our phone records to determine calling patterns.

Last year they wanted search engine companies to provide them with data to see what we are searching on the internet.

If they haven't already done so, they'll soon want to know who we email.

Surely they'll need our bank records to determine purchasing patterns, where we wire money, etc.

The list goes on and on. I guess the question is where do we draw the line? None of those things really impact me since I have nothing to hide. But I still don't like big brother secretly searching through my private life.

The secrecy probably bothers me more than the actual acts...

 

As scary as this notion is to me, thinking like that is even worse.

How about:

President Bush, "We do not mine data." (this week)

General Hayden, Bush's nominee for CIA, "Last week we cemented a deal with another corporate giant to jointly develop a system to mine data" (this week)

So, either the President is lying, or his nominee is a perjurer.

 

These things don't bother me, because I understand they are all accessible by not just authorities, but hackers as well. As for the secrecy, I look at it as investigations into terrorism have to be done secretly, so, I'm ok with it being done with certain levels of secrecy. As for the Bush administration in general, I think the actions would be very similar no matter who is in power. But, with this particular administration, the bumbling and stumbling attempts to cover up and the leaking of information to the media makes it look like a poorly managed three ringed circus. I think it's also difficult to accept any defense based on national security from Bush or the federal government for this action when they appear to be hell bent on not securing our borders, which is the very foundation of national security IMO.

I guess my overall opinion on this, I'm not against this particular program. I am concerned about the competence of those overseeing it, in both the executive and legislative branches, and this includes republicans and democrats.

 

I'm with you about controlling the borders, I agree.
How do you secure the country and leave the borders wide open for anyone
to walk in.
To clarify things a bit, the patriot act and NSA phone taps should've been
a temporary thing until all illegals were gathered and kicked out of the country
after 9/11 then it should have been abolished.
You lost me on the other part.
I've NEVER seen our government, anything I can think of anyway!
When they get power whether its some new program or security measure
or tax disband it once its time had run its course.
So it does scare me that all this knee jerk reaction stuff will be here forever.
At least it does give the government a good excuse to spy on citizens.
Whats next? Maybe we will be like China and controlling citizens in 20 or
25 years?

 

Under FISA, Bush had everything he needed to surveil suspected terrorists. This latest program is also one that falls under FISA's jurisdiction, and one for which Mr. Hayden admitted to avoiding the court because he felt they wouldn't approve.

Why should we trust that Bush would just use this program against terrorists, when he already had the mechanisms to do that very thing? And why should we trust him at all, when he's lied about so many other things?

Surveilling American citizens without warrants can only mean one thing: Bush and his Administration have no respect, whatsoever, for the Fourth Amendment, and they seek carte blanche to spy on their political enemies. Well, that's two things.

This business about the program being innocuous against law abiding citizens because it only captures phone numbers is a dishonest smokescreen. What it is is an enormous impediment to political opposition and to accountability in government. You don't exactly NEED the actual text of a phone conversation to capture the essence of a phone call. For example, if Bush wanted to get a competitive advantage over Kerry he could monitor Kerry's phone records. If a reporter breaks a bit of government unscrupulousness owing to anonymous sources the Bush Administration can merely call up his phone records and determine who those sources were. Say goodbye to whistleblowing, because the Bush Administration can now more easily track down and punish the whistleblowers.

 

Qwest, to their credit, refused to buckle under pressure, even under the threat of being removed from the awarding of government contracts. When they asked the NSA to accompany their lawyers to the FISA court to okay a proposed arrangement the NSA refused.

Way to go, Qwest. As for BellSouth, AT&T, and Verizon... may their shares take a giant tumble.

 

The crazy thing about it Redd is that these phone companies were giving up all of this information right about the same time all of the new privacy laws were going into effect. In the last two years every institution holding any kind of information of identity or personal habits had to revise their privacy policies and send out copies to all of their customers. Everyone should have gotten this type of thing in the mail from their banks, credit card companies, phone companies, utility companies, etc. And at the same time the American people are being told that we had taken a step forward in securing our personal information by way of a supreme court ruling, the government, avoiding the courts at all costs, is gaining access to all of theses things without the permission, and in most cases without most people even knowing, to anything and everything they want.

If this is the track our government stays on get ready to start receiving your application for having a child in the mail real soon, along with a $50 processing fee.

The more control we allow them to take, the more they will want.