EU Constitution in trouble

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Jetstorm, Jun 1, 2005.

  1. Jetstorm

    Jetstorm Founding Member

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    First France rejects it, now Dutch voters follow.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050601...LVEqUO2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2NzN0azRvBHNlYwN3bA—

    I'd say this doesn't bode well for the folks over there hoping for a united Europe that will be a "counterweight" to the U.S. in world affairs.

    Unifying the currency was a big victory, but to really unite to be a big power, they need to more closely tie together their economies, unite behind a single constitution, and most importantly, build a united military. This is a real stumbling block to getting there.
     
  2. locoguano

    locoguano Founding Member

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    Caeser, Charles the Great, Napoleon, Hitler... over and over people try to "Unite" Europe into this great power, and each time it fails... Many of the countries dont want to remain with people in their own country (Basque in Spain, Sicily in Italy, All of the Balkin problem areas, Ireland, even Scottland), so to think that they will unite under one European banner of power is ludicrous.
     
  3. Contained Chaos

    Contained Chaos Don't we all?

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    ^Right on, loco. I like to see gravitations towards cosmopolitan governments take hits.
     
  4. saltyone

    saltyone So Mote It Be

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    Sitting around late one night in Macedonia, I told this smartass Lt. of mine that there was no way that the EU would succeed. He disagreed, guess I was right. I still don't think that there is any hope of these nations ever becoming unified. In my opinion, that's a good thing.
     
  5. bayareatiger

    bayareatiger If it's too loud YOU'RE TOO OLD

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    Is anyone really surprised by this latest turn of events?
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I have mixed feeling about a unified Europe.

    One the one hand it's about time the Eurotypes get their act together and start shouldering some of the load. We've carried them for a long time by providing security. They could all be speaking Russian now. They have the resources to defend themselves and address some international problems that they are conveniently leaving to us.

    On the other hand, a European superpower would be a direct competitor with us politically, economically, and militarily. Perhaps its better that they remain fractious.
     
  7. burlesontiger

    burlesontiger Founding Member

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    If there was a true EU, economically, politically, and militarily, we would be at war with them within 20 years. At the very least, a "cold war" situation. History shows that whenever there is more than one dominant world power, there is conflict, directly or indirectly.
     
  8. Contained Chaos

    Contained Chaos Don't we all?

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    Good point, especially considering how much of Europe the U.S. has given the middle finger to/alienated in the past 2 years.
     
  9. CParso

    CParso Founding Member

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    The problem with unifying Europe is that the people don't view themselves as Europeans - they are allegiate(right word?) to their particular country & often have disdain for their surrounding countries. IMO, the only reason (or atleast main reason) that they want to unify is because they know they can't be a true competitor to the US on their own.

    I think that even if Europe were to unify, USA would still be stronger - militarily, economically, and politically. Europe no longer holds political clout because they don't use their military & have been proven to be wimps that back down from anything. Economically, many parts of Europe are in the dumps - absolute waste land. They have alot of old money & not near the middle class that the USA has. They have a high amount of lower class citizens and not as many metropolitan/business conducive areas as the USA.

    Historically, civilizations rarely make it longer than 300 years - USA is approaching the mark. Unless something changes, I could see entropy taking it's course & the USA losing super power status in the next 50-75 years.
     
  10. burlesontiger

    burlesontiger Founding Member

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    This may be true, but one thing you have to consider is that prior to the rise of the US, there were vast areas of the globe (Western Hemisphere) that were largely unpopulated and undeveloped. We don't really have that situation today, unless you consider Asia, Africa, or South America underdeveloped. When a power falls, historically it is replaced by an "up and coming" power, one that is relatively young and just getting on its feet. Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Barbarian Europe, Spain, England, US, ? Who'd be next? China? European Union? It would have to be one of those two, because I don't see anyone else even close to that status.

    Which brings another interesting question: Could it be possibe for the US to decline from superpower status, without a replacement? Given the global geopolitical situation today, what would the world be like with no superpower?
     

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