FINALLY! Our whorish mainstream media reports on the memo

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Rex, May 6, 2005.

  1. Rex

    Rex Founding Member

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    Contained Chaos, they don't care because they're not fighting the war, themselves.

    Bunch of chickenhawks. The Army fell short of April's recruitment goal by 42%... funny thing is that there was no shortage of people of fighting age voting for George Bush.
     
  2. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    you just are not listening.

    wanting to do something, and deciding to actually do it are not the same thing.

    repeat:

    wanting to do something, and deciding to actually do it are not the same thing.

    similarly, having plans for execution of a task is not the same as actually executing the plan.

    do you expect we do not have plans for defeating north korea? of course we do. we "have plans" for defeating north korea. now if we ask bush if he plans to invade korea, the honest answer is no.

    i am hoping i have explained it well enough for you to understand.

    of course! unless you are a completely spineless moron or corrupt criminal, you will not live under a dictatorship without planning somebody's murder. and if an overthrow means people will die, so be it, there is no question you are better off in the long run. and your children and theirs. the US is an unbelievably good country, the best that ever existed. we take over countries, only to restore them right back to the residents! its the best thing possible, the most generous thing in the history of humankind.
     
  3. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    for the millionth time, you can favor a given a policy without doing it yourself. if you disagree, i encourage you to get a job doing every single activity you favor the government doing.
     
  4. saltyone

    saltyone So Mote It Be

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    I hate to have to quote myself, but.....

    Typical lib, you would side with the europeans before giving your own president the benefit of the doubt. Since you look up to them so much, why don't you take a one way flight over there.

    Martin, he probably understands what you are saying, he just doesn't want to hear it. I think you may be wasting your time.
     
  5. Rex

    Rex Founding Member

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    Sure, you can favor a given policy while doing something else, and while looking like a cowardly hypocrite.

    Your argument is laughably specious.
     
  6. Rex

    Rex Founding Member

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    What do you mean, side with the Europeans? I side with who's telling the truth. Paul O'Neill and Richard Clarke both said the same things.... and Jack Straw, btw, is no enemy of George Bush.

    Your insinuation that this situation is somehow equivalent to the Lewinsky affair is pathetic. Nobody died when Clinton got a blow job.

    I understand martin's argument... it's fallacious.

    Edited to add:

    It's also important to note that Tony Blair, after the London Times published this blistering memo, did not dispute its authenticity, despite a very heated election wherein he was blasted face-to-face by opponents in Parliament multiple times with this item.
     
  7. Rex

    Rex Founding Member

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    You're not that dense, martin. You're now changing your argument because you were caught.

    Before, you were questioning the "want", and now you've changed it to "decide", because you apparently HADN'T read the article as you contended.

    Bush both WANTED and DECIDED, according to the memo... the facts were being fixed around a policy that had ALREADY BEEN decided.
     
  8. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    dont accuse me of not having read the article, i read it before i posted. just stop that.

    where does it say that?

    read the article.
     
  9. Contained Chaos

    Contained Chaos Don't we all?

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    yeah, that's real easy for you to say. i'm guessing you've lived in america your whole life, and have never, ever, had to live in constant fear for your life for practically even formulating a thought such as this one. do you fail to understand that people in that region have been the victims of brutal, atrocious dictatorships for generations upon generations? your frame of reference is COMPLETELY different from theirs. you've never been opressed. it is impossible for you to even begin to have the ability to assess the people as 'morons' or 'criminals', and absurd for you to even try. do you remember the last time that we told the iraqi's that it was OK to go ahead and try to overthrow saddam? do you remember how unbelievably bad they were thwarted, and how many thousands of them died in a matter of days? why on earth would you think that they would be anxious to try it again?

    certainly. i agree. but you know what? no one came over here and overthrew the british government for us, and 'gave' us democracy. we earned it. we sacrificed many american lives for it's sake. things like this take time, and cannot be imparted by an outside force. in fact, the idea that such can be done is utter and complete nonsense. but it's funny that you bring up 'the long run'. we haven't exactly had the best of luck in that region in that sense. you do remember how buddy-buddy we once were with saddam, right? and that other fella that we empowered....what was his name? osama something? i'd say we've been pretty sh!tty judges of character in that regard thus far. what makes you so sure that the government that we empower won't turn on us and manifest into the exact same thing 20-30 years from now?

    while we're on the subject of democracy, does it not bother anyone in the least bit that bush & co. are now continually spouting off the EXACT same slogan that we iterated in vietnam...that being, we are 'spreading democracy'? again, must be nice not to give a sh!t about history repeating itself.

    hmmm. the romans said the exact same thing. so did the national socialists in germany, pre-WWII. am i comparing the US to those countries? indeed not. but the question remains, what makes it valid when you say it and not them?

    we do? do you understand that, if we did that in iraq, how incredibly bad off they would be? those people are, in no way, equipped or trained to defend themselves. civil war in that country is absolutely imminent upon our exit (that is, if we ever leave). so then what are you left with? thousands of dead, brave, and honorable american soldiers...tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, of dead, innocent iraqi civilians...and subsequent and self-perpetuating mid-east turmoil. you are completely fooling yourself if you think that we have the ability to enter a region that has known nothing but war and turmoil since the freaking biblical era and remedy it with force.

    nah. i'd put Jesus' crucifixion well above this.

    boy, is it EVER!

    sure, you can have plans, or an idea of what you would do to another country if necessary. meaning, if provoked. there's a tremendous difference between knowing what you would do if you got into a fight, and going around picking fights. i'm with you, there's no way in hell he read the article.

    why doesn't anyone want to touch the 'flawed intelligence' issue that i brought up?
     
  10. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    hey, if you not be willing to fight for freedom, thats fine. i would join those who would. i would not live under a dictator.

    because they are terrible and we are great. yunno, history. ever notice japan is not america east? we do not conquer and take. we liberate and return.


    hey thats super.

    you should stop acting like a child if you want to be respected. i read the article. for the sake of argument, lets pretend i didnt read it, you are awesome, i am a liar. now lets pretend i read it just now. i still have the exact same opinions i had before, but you can stop claiming i didnt read the article.
     

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