Gas Prices!

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by TigerKid05, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    If an oil company like Exxon produces and refines the oil, the buyer and seller is the same company.
     
  2. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    But that is exactly how companies makes money. The cost goes up and they pass it on to the consumer.

    Price of corn has skyrocketed because of the demand to make ethanol. Corn is the primary source of livestock feed. Milk is going up, beef is going up, pork is going up, etc.

    I know you are going tell me how oil companies should play by different rules, but that's not how I see it. We either let the gov't nationalize the oil industry, like Venezuela, or we let the free market do its job. And yes, if any wrongdoing is found, hammer them hard.
     
  3. TwistedTiger

    TwistedTiger Founding Member

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    That's correct and the reason why the bulk of their profits come from production.
     
  4. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    those laws are ridiculous. there is no such thing as a monopoly anymore, unless the government enforces it. the post office is an example. mailing a normal letter with ups is illegal. buying an electric car is not illegal. carpooling is not illegal. converting to ethanol is not illegal. living close to work is not illegal. investing in alternatives to oil is not illegal. the only person stopping you from using alternatives is you.

    many first world countries use far less oil than us, it is possible. people in places like the netherlands, they use far, far less oil, and it isnt because they are backward developing countries. they are just different. we have it stuck in our heads that oil is the only answer. it isnt.

    imagine if tomorrow all oil disappeared. it would suck. but imagine the billions and billions that would go into new energy sources. people would come up with with all kinds of things. a jerkass would make a motorcycle powered by beans. you would buy an ethanol conversion kit for your car. electric cars would sell like hotcakes, and nuclear power plants would be built at a record pace. efficient battery technology would explode. our problems would solve themselves, through the free market. investors wordwide would spend billions on solutions.

    and this will happen, either slowly or quickly. in my hypothetical it might take us years. and if we leave he market alone, and oil prices rise, it might take a few decades. but if we need alternatives, we will find them. gas is not a necessity, just because we say it is. gas is cheap as hell, thats why we burn it. if we didnt have gas, we would damn sure have something else.

    of course it is. you are still basing this on the premise that you have to buy oil! buy much less oil, and promise you the price will come down. but we dont slow down at all, we still burn it like crazy, because we can. if you do not like a high price, do not buy the product, this is the cornerstone of free market economics. stop pretending we cannot stop consuming so much oil. of course we can. if we let the free market roll, maybe the price will get so high that we actually will stop using so much. just because we choose not cut to down on oil use, that doesnt mean we can't.

    does every soccer mom "need" that SUV? does every american family "need" to move way out into the suburbs via a long commute? of course not. we do these things because we can, because we have been blessed with so much cheap oil. and even as prices keep risin, we still barely alter our lifestyles.

    when we need to move on to something new, because oil is too expensive, it will happen, we do not need to manipulate the oil companies to protect ourselves from them. solutions are just waiting for investment, waiting for oil to cost enough for people to change. it happens without the huge clumsy guiding fist of government.



    when every road isnt clogged with a hundred SUVs, maybe then you should think this over again, but as of now it could not be clearer that gas is not so expensive that it is causing these negative repurcussions. and when that starts to happen, alternatives will emerge. that is the beauty of the market, humanity doesnt just fall apart, capitalists see new doors opening and solve problems. somewhere there is a guy in his garage with a cold fusion machine or something, just praying gas gets to 6$ a gallon, waiting for when the investors start throwing cash at him. but this will not happen if we insist of ridiculous management of oil prices.



    you say that as if record profits are bad. buy some stock.

    they provided you with oil. it was worth it to you, or you wouldnt have bought it.

    collusion is fair. consumers do it (boycotts). sellers do it. it is just part of being free. part of living in a place where you get to decide what your products will be sold for, or what you are willing to purchase. the government doesnt own oil companies, at least not in america. they do in venezuela. if you want to see what happens when the government manages prices, there is your example. stupid people allow themselves to be tricked by crappy leaders because they fear the free market. power hungry leaders pacify unsophisticated people with promises of hurting the fat cats and their "windfall profits". everyone loses.

    you do not have to fear the free market. trust me, the oil companies want to sell oil at a price you can afford. they dont need the government to tell them that. when the prices get so high that consumption goes down (and saves the earth!), they will stop raising prices. oil is not too expensive for us to afford. millions of huge suburbans and escalades on our highways prove that.
     
  5. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    and dont get me started on corn. michael pollan's book, the omnivore's dillema, was all about how government subsidies and manipulation of corn has screwed up our health terribly. we can't eat anything without corn in it. every piece of livestock we eat was fattened up with corn, every soft drink, every candy, all with high fructose corn syrup (much worse for us than unprocessed sugar, but artificially cheapened by our tax dollars and subsidies). we are a nation made primarily of processed corn.

    and now ethanol. every candidate has to bow down to the corn farmers because the iowa caucus is so important. zillions of of our tax dollars insure that we have assloads and assloads of corn everywhere. it doesnt help our health or finances, and it damn sure ruins cane sugar farmers worldwide. thats what happens when the government manages something we "have to have". we artificially get stuck with something ****ty.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Those costs are passed along to the consumers. The companies make an easy windfall on their vig of the resulting increased price.
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I have not criticised the free market. But I do believe wrongdoing is being permitted. Anti-trust laws and other regulations should be investigated, enforced and hammer them hard.

    Inflation is under control in all sectors right now except for fuel which is going through the roof. Meanwhile Big Oil is making unprecedented profits, which is definitely a contributor. Fuel is a part of the Critical National Infrastructure of the nation and the government has a responsibility to insure that the profiteering of the multinational oil companies do not compromise the vital national interests of the USA.
     
  8. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    translation: freedom to exchange goods frightens us. we are weak and need protection from the option to buy things. only politicians can save us.

    red needs a a leader like saddam, a strongman that will beat him down and control him, make him feel secure.
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    You are the absolute worst translator on the planet. You're fired.
     
  10. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

    -H. L. Mencken

    this perfectly applies to all your calls to action. the environment, the peak oil, the oil prices. always a call for politics to fix us. we always need help. we cant manage without the government.
     

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