1> Saban performed 18% better at LSU than at Michigan State in terms winning percentages including one national championship, two SEC championships, two sugar bowl wins. He won nothing at Michigan State 2> Dinardo performed 20% better in 1995,1996,1997 than Saban did in Michigan State in 1995,1996,1997 3> Dinardo won only one game less between 1995 and 1999 than the man who replaced him at LSU during the same period. 4> Dinardo had a better winning percentage in (1995,1996,1997) than Saban in (2000,2001,2002). 5> If you leave out the last two years of the Saban era, despite the SEC championship in 2001, DiNardo did better in each of their first three years. DiNardo is as bad a coach as one can get. The argument is if we can win like we did in 1995,1996 and 1997 with DiNardo then we can win with anyone, especially a good recruiter like Les Miles 5>Saban and Miles have almost the same winning percentages as head coaches before comming to LSU, 57% under similar circumstances. Look here: ----------------------------- Nick Saban at Michingan State ----------------------------- 1995: 6-5-1 1996: 6-6-0 1997: 7-5-0 1998: 6-6-0 1999: 9-2-0 ----------------------------- Nick Saban at LSU ----------------------------- 2000: 8-4-0 2001: 10-3-0 2002: 8-5-0 2003: 13-1-0 2004: 9-3-0 ----------------------------- DiNardo at LSU ----------------------------- 1995 7-4-1 1996 10-2 1997 9-3 1998 4-7 1999 3-8 ----------------------------- Miles at OK State ----------------------------- 2001 4-7 2002 8-5 2003 9-4 2004 7-5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Saban (at Michigan State) Vs Saban (at LSU) ---------------------------------------------------------- MSU: W/L/T: 34-24-1 Winning%: 57% LSU: W/L/T: 48-16-0 Winning%: 75% Observation: Saban performed 18% better at LSU including one national championship, two SEC championships, two sugar bowl wins. He won nothing at Michigan State ---------------------------------------------------------- Michigan State(Saban) Vs LSU(DiNardo) (1995,1996,1997) ---------------------------------------------------------- MSU: W/L/T: 19-16-1 Winning%: 54% LSU: W/L/T: 26-9-1 Winning%: 74.28% Observation: Dinardo won 20% in 1995,1996,1997 than Saban did in Michigan State in 1995,1996,1997 ---------------------------------------------------------- Michigan State(Saban) Vs LSU(DiNardo) (1995,1996,1997,1998) ---------------------------------------------------------- MSU: W/L/T: 25-22-1 Winning%: 52% LSU: W/L/T: 30-16-1 Winning%: 62.5% Observation: Dinardo won 10% more games in 1995,1996,1997,1998 than Saban did in Michigan State in 1995,1996,1997,1998 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Michigan State(Saban) Vs LSU(DiNardo) (1995,1996,1997,1998,1999) ---------------------------------------------------------------- MSU: W/L/T: 34-24-1 Winning%: 57% LSU: W/L/T: 33-24-1 Winning%: 56% Observation: Dinardo won only one less game between 1995 and 1999 than the man who replaced him at LSU during the same period. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Saban's (2000,2001,2002) Vs DiNardo (1995,1996,1997) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Saban W/L/T: 26-12-0 Winning%: 68.42% DiNardo: W/L/T: 26-9-1 Winning%: 72.22% Observation: Dinardo had a better winning percentage than Saban in his first three years than Nick Saban. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Miles (at Ok State 2001-2004) Vs Saban (at MSU 1995-2000) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Miles W/L/T: 28-21-0 Winning%: 57.14% Saban: W/L/T: 34-24-1 Winning%: 57% Observation: Saban and Miles have almost the same winning percentages as head coaches before comming to LSU, 57% Comments?
This is very interesting. To be honest, it almost makes Saban look worse. Miles should do very, very well here - especially with great staff & recruits that he has brought in & retained. What prompted you to do all this research?
I came to Louisiana to go to school LSU in 98 so I did not know anything before 98. I wanted to know how badly we sucked before Saban. I observed from our record that if you leave 1998 and 1999 we did not do that badly under Gerry Dumbanardo. Then I saw Saban's "stellar" record at Michigan State with the Big 10 nothing like the SEC in speed and tallent. Hey! If we can win with Dumbanard we will win with anybody with this talent.
I agree, we can win a good amount of games with a mediocre coach. However, DiNardo never won us any championships. Nick's winning percentage wasn't as high as some people around here make it seem, but he won the big games & got the championships - that's what counts. Miles won't be content to come in here and win games, he's here to win championships.
Winning SEC championships and NC's involve a certain element of luck. Saban was blessed with it. Miles may (i hope so) be. I hope we do not run into the Meyer machine and get derailed.
it is not just how many games you win, its what games you win. how often did DiNardo win a big game? even if DiNardo had maintained 8-10 win seasons thats not enough nor as good as Saban did. ask Ohio St fans if consistent 8-10 win seasons are enough. its all about putting together a program that makes a big run every couple of years.
You also have to look at the trend directions. Saban had Michigan State going in the right direction when he left. No one would argue that LSU is worse off now than when he got here. He may have done his best coaching in 04. While Dinardo won a lot of games, there was a serious and fast drop off after his signature win over Florida. The 98 & 99 teams were very poorly coached, and there was no reason to expect any better from Dinardo in the future. Hallman actually left the team in better shape than when he got there, but he was too big an idiot as a gameday coach to hold on to. Miles was on my top ten list, because I think he is a good game day coach. I also like what I am hearing about his priorities off the field. But only time will tell. GEAUX TIGERS
The simple difference is this... In 1995...LSU lost to Texas A&M, Florida, Alabama, & Kentucky...33-7, 28-10, 24-16, and 10-3...All were tough, hard fought losses, except for perhaps the Texas A&M game... In 1996...LSU was supposed to have had its best season under DiNardo, and lost only 2 games...But, those two games were absolute annihalations...56-14 to Florida, and 26-0 to Alabama at home. In 1997, we had more disappointments like the 30-28 disappointment at home against Auburn, the letdown against Ole Miss 36-21, & who can forget the goatf$ck against Notre Dame at home by a 24-6 final score? In 1998, we sprialed downwards by a 28-27 final score on national television in a late last second loss...and that led to a revenge minded Florida 22-10 in G-ville, the dreaded "reverse" call 39-36 loss to Kentucky, the embarassment in overtime in Oxford 37-31...then getting ripped by Bama at home 22-16, and then a defensive embarassment in the light of outstanding defensive play by guys like Mark Roman in South Bend...Losing again 39-36...and the biggest embarassment...Benching Herb Tyler in favor of RS Frosh Craig Nall in a season ending 41-14 snoozer in Fraggle Rock... In 1999...Well, do we really have to rehash 1999? The first-and only-7 game conference losing streak...and one end of the year blowout loss to Arkansas away from the first winless slate at Tiger Stadium in years-if ever... It wasn't the wins and losses...You and McDLT have the same problems...There are more to wins and losses than wins and losses...It's like the 22-21 season opener against Oregon State...We came away with a victory, and most Tiger fans remember nothing of the game other than that fact, just like in 1996, when we had to overcome a huge 4th quarter deficit against Houston to open up the year...Eventually prevailing 35-34 in a game that we should have lost if not for the absolute brilliance of Kevin Faulk... No one remembers how you won or lost...But, that's how coaches are hired or fired, in retrospect...DiNardo wasn't just fired for failing, but for failing miserably. His coaching decisions led to his ouster...Not his overall winning percentage... Likewise, Nick Saban was viewed as a success not only because he dominated and put wins up on the board. It was the way we dominated. The way we ground lesser teams to a pulp. In 1996, we win 35-34 against Houston in what should have nothing near that close... In 2003, we win 59-10 against Arizona in perhaps the single most dominant performance of an LSU team in all three phases of the game that I've ever witnessed. Therein lies they key difference between the two coaches, if you ask me. Those two games. In one, sheer heart overcame an adverse situation and a lackluster performance in the most thrilling fashion... In the other, sheer brute force, strength of purpose, clarity of mind, and superior preparation and coaching introduced an absolute juggernaut to the Tiger Nation, and the rest of the world...
Wow! Margaret Mitchell (Gone with the Wind :yelwink2: ) is a tough act to follow, but here goes. 1. Curly left Dinardo with a full pantry. 2. Dinardo was a mediocre coach with mediocre recruiting capabilities, hence the rare "big wins". FLA (1997). 3. Saban was a great coach with very good recruiting skills who inherited a nearly empty pantry, stocked the pantry, won the big game & cashed in. 4. Stats comparing both performances over the early years aren't fair because of what they inherited. Let's geaux one more step along. 5. Les Miles appears to be a VG coach with Good recruiting ability. 6. Les Miles has a fully stocked pantry at LSU for 2005, 2006, 2007 (three yrs) 7. Les Miles has ZERO EXCUSES for not having great success at LSU. 8. Great Success means LSU going to a BCS bowl for the next three years and playing for championships. :geauxtige
I'm not going to be to upset if we don't make BCS bowls the next 3 years in a row. Our goal is to be competitive. If a tough loss to Auburn (or whatever SEC team, since hopefully this won't happen) results in them going to the BCS, but LSU still wins the rest of their games - there is nothing to complain about. However, there's no reason to believe that success will only last 3 years. Miles did happen to recruit several phenomenal players with barely a month's time and no previous commitments to LSU from them. Next year's recruiting should be even more impressive. There might be a year of rebuilding here & there, but the talent should always be there - just a question of experienced it is, like this past year. Miles has proven his work ethic in the past month or 2 and I am confident that this will be a very, very good football team for a while to come.
