Is America really much better than China?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by USMTiger, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    So I'm watching the protests surrounding the Olympic Games, and the poor record that China has on Human Rights, and I got to wondering exactly what it was that was upsetting people about China? Of course China is backwards in regards to issues of human liberties and individual rights, but are they that much worse than what America has become?

    Here are some examples:

    1. People say that China doesn't allow protests against the ruling government. True. They often arrests groups of political protestors unjustly. However, consider in America, what would happen if you gathered up a group of 500 people, and without government permission, marched on the nearest government building? You would be arrested. Not a big difference here, other than our government is more permissible in "allowing" us to protest, and not quite as violent in the supression (in most cases- we've had our moments too).

    2. China has a severely harsh system of criminal justice. Again, very true. But then again, do we not live in a country where 1% of the adult population is in prison, where the majority of these prisoners are not violent offenders? Is our justice system not a harsh, considering our love for mandatory minimum and three-strikes sentencing habits? We have more people in prison, period, than China does, despite the fact that there are wayyyyy more Chinese than Americans.

    3. The Chinese Government is over-intrusive into the lives of its civilians. Yep. They definitely are. But imagine if you will, that some random person gives your name up to the local police as being a drug dealer. Whether true or not, the odds are that a paramilitary squad is going to force their way into your home with machine guns in the middle of the night, based solely on the word of this informant.

    4. China is militaristic. They supply arms to evil dictators and support oppressive governments in pursuit of their own ends, regardless of the human suffering that it causes. True. Does not America do the same? Except we actually take it as far as invading the countries we have issues with. We have provided arms to Islamic Fundamentalists to fight the Russians, Sadam freaking Hussein to fight the Iranians, arms to ruthless South American govts to fight our drug war, and so on and so on.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to excuse one or the other. I love America. I hate what it has become. I think the citizens of both countries are at heart good people, who are ruled by ruthless, power hungry leaders. I think both governments are horrible when it comes to Human Rights. The only difference is that one doesn't offer up a pretense of liberty and justice, and one does.

    So, people here who have expressed the desire to boycott the Olympics and condemn China for barbarism, please do tell... what is China doing that America is not also doing in some way?
     
  2. TigerBait3

    TigerBait3 Guest

    yes.

    you could make a case for every thing in the world to be related to another...in some way.
     
  3. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Veteran Member

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    hmmmm, Id say China is much worse.
     
  4. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    Can you give some examples? They are supposedly some horrible country, but I can't figure out why...
     
  5. TigerBait3

    TigerBait3 Guest

    ever been there?
     
  6. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    No.

    What is your point?
     
  7. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    Ah, some actual discussion more than three words.

    I agree, living under the Communist system must suck severely. I just think that if your description were truly the case, then the number of people in prisons would be much higher than America's, not lower. I don't know if modern China is actually like this anymore. I'm sure dissent is not tolerated, but I don't see it being much different than some of the periods of time America went through recently, with the investigations of Civil Rights leaders by Hoover, and the crackdowns on anyone with Communist sympathies during the Macarthy era...

    I've heard the same thing about China, but I'm not sure if this is propaganda or the truth. Most Chinese ex-pats I've met didn't seem too angry over their treatment when they lived in China. I know several friends who have been to China, and were asked specifically about the Chinese Communist govt. Most of them had a sense of humor about it, and didn't seem scared at all. I know that is not a poll of everyone in China, but the vibe (at least to my friends) was not one of oppressed fear.

    It seems that most "leaders" gain alot of power by pointing their fingers at other groups as the source of their problems, mainly as distractions from their own problems at home that are not getting solved. We see this all over the world, and I don't think we are excluded as Americans.
     
  8. JohnLSU

    JohnLSU Tigers

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    Regarding #1, sure, you might have to get a permit to stage a protest, but the government isn't going to refuse that permit to protest, they just want it to give them notice so that they have some police officers over there to make sure that a crowd of 500 doesn't get out of hand (rioting, looting, etc) ... but they will still allow the protest. China, on the other hand, won't allow the protest period.

    Regarding #3, your door isn't going to get kicked down based on hearsay testimony. The police would have to get a warrant to enter your home, and this has to be approved by the judge, and the judge ain't going to approve it unless he is pretty dang sure you are a drug dealer (like if the police showed the judge the recordings from a wiretap that an informant wore while you sold a block of cocaine to him). There are all kinds of rights and safeguards that protect Americans from being arrested and imprisoned. China, on the other hand, doesn't share these basic rights that we are used to here with our criminal justice system.

    As for #2 and #4, interesting points.
     
  9. TigerBait3

    TigerBait3 Guest

    my point is sights are more powerful than words here. if you went there it wouldnt be much of a question. :)

    now as for making an essay to support that i really dont want to just to be honest. ;)
     
  10. USMTiger

    USMTiger Founding Member

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    I wish this was the case. It isn't. If you want examples, take a look at www.theagitator.com It is the blog of Radley Balko, who is the editor of Reason magazine. He documents news stories of liberty abuses in America, and shows example after example of drug raids that were given authorization on very scarce evidence, and very often only the word of paid informants is enough for "law and order" judges to issue warrants. Interesting stuff, and you can see that hundreds of SWAT raids are done each month based only on the word of a police informant.

    I mean, you got towns with populations of less than 10,000 with SWAT teams, and elected "law and order" judges. They have to do something with all that cool gear, right?
     

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