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Isla Vista killing....the NRA's fault?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by uscvball, May 29, 2014.

  1. uscvball

    uscvball Veteran Member

    One victim's father thinks so.

    "Why did Chris die?" Martinez said during the emotional plea. "Chris died because of craven, irresponsible politicians and the NRA. They talk about gun rights. What about Chris' right to live?"

    It's his kid, I get the anger but is it misdirected? Half the victims were gutted with a knife and the killer used his BMW as a weapon. Isn't the real problem mental illness? The killer's family confirms that he was under psychiatric care daily since high school, was a loner, that they worried about him every day. He might have had Asperger's. The same bio of almost every other recent mass killer. Does anyone believe that even without a gun, he wouldn't have killed people?

    I see more calls this week to remove all guns from society. Civil War Part 2 is on the way.
     
  2. LSUMASTERMIND

    LSUMASTERMIND Veteran Member

    your argument makes zero sense.
    the question about the NRA is the only valid question here and the answer is somewhere in the middle on both sides of the argument. If this guy was in a database with a mental illness and tried to buy a gun legally, yes maybe the gun dealer could have flagged his purchased and it would have been investigated, but since there are no such laws and the NRA kills any politician that backs such laws, we will never know.
    Could he have gotten the guns illegally yes, but he bought them legally.
    the other answer is yes, he could have killed a few people without a gun, but more people are dead because he was able to buy a gun.
     
  3. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

    I sometimes wonder if these social misfits are brainwashed into these mass killings by the minions of so called liberal billionaires such as New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and George Soros to try to stir the public into outrage and demanding gun confiscation in a step toward their goal of world domination. It won't work. Whenever Obama and his lackeys start talking about gun control the effect is to drive up gun sales
     
  4. gyver

    gyver Rely on yourself not on others.

    He killed 3 with a gun, 3 with a knife, and ran over the others. Right?
     
    shane0911 likes this.
  5. uscvball

    uscvball Veteran Member

    My argument makes lots of sense because I am talking about causation, not outcome. CA has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and yet it made no difference. There were several opportunities over time for this kid to get flagged and locked up but as usual, the signs went by and no action was taken. His parents knew he was a problem. His therapist knew it. His roommates and neighbors knew it. He posted hateful shit on online forums under his own name and nothing happened. The police failed to act. He had been posting crazy things for a long time and yet nobody stepped up enough to check him out or his home.

    The fact his, he knowingly pursued a gun free zone because he wanted to avoid police and other possible gun owners. He killed 6 people. 3 were killed by knife, machete, and hammer. 3 were shot. 2 were hit by his car. Dude was psycho. He was going to kill people one way or another. Dots have to be connected but people are too afraid to infringe on the civil rights of mentally deviate idiots. Consequently they have less of an issue infringing on other people's rights to own a gun.
     
    gyver and KyleK like this.
  6. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC Senior Member

    The issue of mass killings truly is a mental health issue and not a guns issue. I am a gun owner and would never relinquish that right. That said, I would never mind waiting an extra day to purchase a weapon while the seller runs me through a data base to make sure I don't have a mental health or criminal history. If we can accomplish that faster than a day then so be it. That said, Mental Health has been absolutely gutted over the past 15 years and across both D and R administrations so no politics here. It started with the privatization push that happened in the early 2000's and has only been exacerbated by the cuts made to mental health funding since the economy tanked in 2008. My wife is a therapist and it has become so bad that she has taken a break from the field altogether. I think most of you here would agree that the government has little buisness doing too many things but education, defense, prisons and mental health are four that I think are of the utmost importance. Currently our mental health system and prison system have been completely privatized and, if many get their way, the same thing will happen with education (i.e. charter schools, etc.) You would think somewhere along the line we would learn our lesson about privatizing all of these things. If you look closely, defense could easily be next with companies like Blackwater already performing privatized military duties.
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    It's not a zero sum question. Mental illness is a problem that can result in gun violence. The NRA is responsible for fighting common-sense measures to decrease gun violence by whipping up unfounded hysteria that "the government" is trying to take our guns away. Not one President has ever advocated this. Not Obama. Not nobody.
     
  8. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

    I'm for guns, I own guns, I was raised on guns. Yes the real problem is mental illness but that doesn't mean that every time there is a mass shooting you make guns easier to get and legal to carry everywhere.

    What is so wrong w ending gunshow loopholes?

    Nothing.
     
  9. uscvball

    uscvball Veteran Member

    I agree with that.

    Handing mental health issues to the Feds is not something I would support. They are too far removed from situations that often require immediate and local governance. I can foresee the gov't becoming the world's largest prescription drug dispensers. Hell no.

    I honestly don't know what the answer is for some of these people. Psychotics with brain or chemical imbalances are unfit for society but may not be bad enough for permanent hospitalization. Their behavior is often controlled by psychotropics but most stop taking them when they are 18 or older. Parents can take their kids to mental hospitals for mandatory holds but when they get released and the police won't or can't help, then what?

    I love charter schools. I wish I had one close enough for my children to attend. And Blackwater serves a purpose. They do some inherently evil and necessary things that our military can't or don't want responsibility for.
     
    gyver likes this.
  10. mancha

    mancha Alabama morghulis

    I agree. The Govt. has done a terrible job handling the VA Hospital issues and many of those are mental health related. The bureaucracy cannot handle health care and it is proven.

    The Govt. can't do anything for mental health if the family doesn't take the initiative first.
     

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