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JCT: Healthcare law to sock middle class with a $3.9 billion tax increase in 2019

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Swerved, Apr 14, 2010.

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Swerved It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

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http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mon...s-middle-class-with-a-39-billion-tax-increase

JCT: Healthcare law to sock middle class with a $3.9 billion tax increase in 2019

Taxpayers earning less than $200,000 a year will pay roughly $3.9 billion more in taxes — in 2019 alone — due to healthcare reform, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress's official scorekeeper.

The new law raises $15.2 billion over 10 years by limiting the medical expense deduction, a provision widely used by taxpayers who either have a serious illness or are older.

Taxpayers can currently deduct medical expenses in excess of 7.5 percent of their adjusted gross income. Starting in 2013, most taxpayers will only be able to deduct expenses greater than 10 percent of AGI. Older taxpayers are hit by this threshold increase in 2017.

Once the law is fully implemented in 2019, the JCT estimates the deduction limitation will affect 14.8 million taxpayers — 14.7 million of them will earn less than $200,000 a year. These taxpayers are single and joint filers, as well as heads of households.
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Thoughts?

I thought this would make a good thread considering the discussion about the poor, middle-class, and rich that have been going on in the other thread..

Swerved, Apr 14, 2010

#1

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Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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Read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class!
95% of Americans weren't supposed to have their taxes raised although I am not sure if that included the Vat tax that some are talking about.
I can hardly wait until we have 13 to 20 percent unemployment, $7 a gallon gasoline, etc.
All we have to do is look at the countries in Europe, that should tell me people where we are headed but some refuse to believe it.

Sourdoughman, Apr 14, 2010

#2
LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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i will be dead by then anyway.

LaSalleAve, Apr 14, 2010

#3
Swerved It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

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Don't you have kids? I mean nothing by that, other than I just find it a bit ironic that a parent's take on that would be "I'll be dead by then anyway".

FWIW, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I'm rather intrigued by your answer considering the circumstances. Of course, if I'm mistaken and you don't have kids, disregard this.

Swerved, Apr 14, 2010

#4
shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

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Swerved said: ↑

Don't you have kids? I mean nothing by that, other than I just find it a bit ironic that a parent's take on that would be "I'll be dead by then anyway".

FWIW, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I'm rather intrigued by your answer considering the circumstances. Of course, if I'm mistaken and you don't have kids, disregard this.
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Beat me to it

shane0911, Apr 14, 2010

#5
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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Wow, $3.9 billion. They didn't care to put that in percentage terms. No, of course not, because if they did then everyone would see how trivial this is. Last year, people making less than $200K a year paid about $600 billion in income taxes. By 2019, we can expect that to rise to $1 trillion, maybe higher. $4 billion is 4/1000ths of the total, meaning that the Horrible Burden will rise by 0.4%. Did the right-wing "The Hill" want to write a headline saying, "Tax Burden to Rise By 0.4% on Middle Class?" Nah. What sort of outrage would that manufacture?

Plus, this would only affect filers who itemize medical deductions. While itemized deductions are now claimed on about 8 million returns reporting incomes in the $100,000 to $200,000 range, the medical expense deduction was claimed on only 278,840 of them-about 3.85%.

What the article also does not address is what the cost savings is for taxpayers from the broader coverage plans. By closing the donut, many seniors will save up to $1,000 per year. By broadening the base of people covered by insurance, how much will we all save via the reduction in costs that hospitals have to eat now to cover uninsured patients?

This is system wide reform of health insurance, so since you have lower out of pocket expenses to deduct in the first place, far fewer people will need the deduction for unreimbursed medical expenses. That is what is entirely missing from JCT's analysis. It is only an overall tax increase if the same number of people (or more) are going to reach the 7.5% level for the deduction. If they don't need to be spending $1,100 per month on an individual plan premium, $4,000 per year on prescription drug costs in the doughnut hole, or $10,000 or more for hospital bills an insurer didn't pick up, then obviously they will not have any need to deduct medical expenses over 7.5 percent of their income!

red55, Apr 14, 2010

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SabanFan The voice of reason

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red55 said: ↑

Wow, $3.9 billion. They didn't care to put that in percentage terms. No, of course not, because if they did then everyone would see how trivial this is.
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In Obamaworld, maybe it is trivial. That's a big part of the problem.

SabanFan, Apr 14, 2010

#7
Swerved It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

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red55 said: ↑

Wow, $3.9 billion. They didn't care to put that in percentage terms. No, of course not, because if they did then everyone would see how trivial this is. Last year, people making less than $200K a year paid about $600 billion in income taxes. By 2019, we can expect that to rise to $1 trillion, maybe higher. $4 billion is 4/1000ths of the total, meaning that the Horrible Burden will rise by 0.4%. Did the right-wing "The Hill" want to write a headline saying, "Tax Burden to Rise By 0.4% on Middle Class?" Nah. What sort of outrage would that manufacture?

Plus, this would only affect filers who itemize medical deductions. While itemized deductions are now claimed on about 8 million returns reporting incomes in the $100,000 to $200,000 range, the medical expense deduction was claimed on only 278,840 of them-about 3.85%.

What the article also does not address is what the cost savings is for taxpayers from the broader coverage plans. By closing the donut, many seniors will save up to $1,000 per year. By broadening the base of people covered by insurance, how much will we all save via the reduction in costs that hospitals have to eat now to cover uninsured patients?

This is system wide reform of health insurance, so since you have lower out of pocket expenses to deduct in the first place, far fewer people will need the deduction for unreimbursed medical expenses. That is what is entirely missing from JCT's analysis. It is only an overall tax increase if the same number of people (or more) are going to reach the 7.5% level for the deduction. If they don't need to be spending $1,100 per month on an individual plan premium, $4,000 per year on prescription drug costs in the doughnut hole, or $10,000 or more for hospital bills an insurer didn't pick up, then obviously they will not have any need to deduct medical expenses over 7.5 percent of their income!
Click to expand...

I don't see it like that. Trivial as it may be in your eyes, every bit counts. Of course, with talks of trillions of dollars flying around now days, the public has become desensitized to hearing petty numbers in the billions. After all, a few billion dollars is nothing.

If reform is what it's about, then why not put a plan together that gives people the option of participating in their own health care rather than forcing them to take it lest be criminalized for not. If it's not a money/control grab, then why force people to take part in it? Why not let people decide not to take part in it -or- let them handle their own affairs? It's because they can't fund it otherwise, which implies to me that it's not a good idea. The same goes for Social Security too.. I know if they gave people the choice to not participate I'd opt out and put the money to better use. Because at only 37 years old, the concept of me EVER receiving any of the thousands that I put in thus far is a bit far fetched. Maybe I'm a bit cynical but I'm pretty sure I'll be working until I'm dead.

For what it's worth I do give hell to both sides.. I sent Senator Vitter a nasty gram today and called his office to let them know he's got a lot of nerve hosting his own "online tea party" when he's seeking $1.1 billion in earmarks (according to the Washington Independent) for the 2010 budget. Yes I read both sides of the news, not just the right. But again, what am I fussing for? $1.1 billion is trivial, right?

Swerved, Apr 14, 2010

#8
Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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My problem with all of this is that we are only talking about one tax, when you throw in the other taxes that may happen it really compounds the problem.
I am talking about a Vat tax and Cap and Trade and whatever other taxes the Dems come up with to help pay for Obama's spending spree.
Throw in an increase in State tax because the state's have no money, plenty of un-intended consequences when it comes to government.
This is only the beginning of higher taxes not the end!

Sourdoughman, Apr 14, 2010

#9
Rex_B Geaux Time

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red55 said: ↑

Wow, $3.9 billion. They didn't care to put that in percentage terms. No, of course not, because if they did then everyone would see how trivial this is. Last year, people making less than $200K a year paid about $600 billion in income taxes. By 2019, we can expect that to rise to $1 trillion, maybe higher. $4 billion is 4/1000ths of the total, meaning that the Horrible Burden will rise by 0.4%. Did the right-wing "The Hill" want to write a headline saying, "Tax Burden to Rise By 0.4% on Middle Class?" Nah. What sort of outrage would that manufacture?

Plus, this would only affect filers who itemize medical deductions. While itemized deductions are now claimed on about 8 million returns reporting incomes in the $100,000 to $200,000 range, the medical expense deduction was claimed on only 278,840 of them-about 3.85%.

What the article also does not address is what the cost savings is for taxpayers from the broader coverage plans. By closing the donut, many seniors will save up to $1,000 per year. By broadening the base of people covered by insurance, how much will we all save via the reduction in costs that hospitals have to eat now to cover uninsured patients?

This is system wide reform of health insurance, so since you have lower out of pocket expenses to deduct in the first place, far fewer people will need the deduction for unreimbursed medical expenses. That is what is entirely missing from JCT's analysis. It is only an overall tax increase if the same number of people (or more) are going to reach the 7.5% level for the deduction. If they don't need to be spending $1,100 per month on an individual plan premium, $4,000 per year on prescription drug costs in the doughnut hole, or $10,000 or more for hospital bills an insurer didn't pick up, then obviously they will not have any need to deduct medical expenses over 7.5 percent of their income!
Click to expand...

While they made the headline for amusement the point is it went up.

Rex_B, Apr 15, 2010

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