John Bolton - U.S. Ambassador to UN nominee

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by LSUGradin99, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,733
    It is not crucial for us to get the approval of the Euros for anything. Never has been, never will be. But on a global scale, they are rich, influential, powerful countries. It is crucial that they remain allies and not become the allies of our enemies.

    France and Germany do not rate the partnership the US has with Britain (unquestioned mutual support). But they are traditional NATO allies and democracies with free-market economies, religiously Christian, and hold the same western values that we embrace. In the long term, it is in Euro-American best interests to remain allied in the face of Islamic extremism. They will come around. The Euros are supporting us in backing down Syria because we are involving them and not alarming them by proposing another bliztkrieg. It is important to understand how Euros feel about war. Their countries suffered like nothing we have ever experienced in WWII. They don't march off to war lightly.

    Russia is teetering between a democracy/free economy or returning to an authoritarian/socialist economy. We need to encourage them to embrace western values, not eastern ones. A US/China war is a real possibility in the next 10 years and we do not need Russia moving into the Chinese camp. With Russian cooperation, China could be sucessfully blockaded by us in wartime. Without it . . .

    The US is The Superpower, but we are not invincible. Our NATO allies will always be minor players, but collectively they double our military and economic power in an international confrontation. And they want to be treated as partners, not as ass-kissing servants that need to be more respectful and do as they are told. For the US to lose this advantage from pomposity and neglect of our allies interests would be a disaster for America and a boon to our enemies. The current administration has done a poor job of managing our allies. But the atlantic alliance of western democracies will outlast this administration.

    The Frogs, the Krauts, the Dagos, and the Slavs are funny people and annoy us from time to time, but they are our friends and allies, not our enemies. Our enemies in the next few decades will be Chinese, Korean, and Arab. We need the Euros on our side in the next few wars, not sitting them out. And certainly not throwing in with the enemy.

    We don't need their approval for anything. We can always go it alone. But they have a right to sit one out if it isn't in their best interests, as we do to them all of the time. But in the long run, we have to throw them a few bones and treat them with some respect if we expect to get it back in return.
     
  2. NoLimitMD

    NoLimitMD Founding Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    366
    Red, I agree with you for the most part, but I think this is inaccurate and overstates their position. I'm pretty sure it's a 1:1 ratio economically, but we actually maintain a substantial military advantage overall. I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think so...anyone, correct me if I'm wrong here please.
     
  3. burlesontiger

    burlesontiger Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    75
    One thing to keep in mind: Economic power IS military power. England is the best example history gives for this. England was a medium-sized nation in Europe. It's army was roughly one quarter the size of that of Germany or France. Yet for nearly 300 years, England was without a doubt the strongest nation in Europe, and neither France nor Germany could decisively defeat her. Why is that? Because England realized (out of necessity, being an island), that true power does not lay in the size of your standing army. Rather, it lies in commerce. By colonizing the world and opening up economic ties across the globe, England ensured herself that resources of money and material would always be available to her. Many countries' economic interests were directly tied to hers. In order to protect these interests, England developed a navy that no one could match. This was possible because the people of England realized the importance of these global economic ties and were willing to spend the money to build and maintain such a fleet. By having such a fleet, England not only could protect her interests abroad, but also could keep invading armies from her own shores. England's power declined only after she was literally bankrupt by WWII and could no longer afford the expense of building and maintaing such a fleet. Many people have the impression that the US "saved" England in WWII. I disagree. We saved France. England saved herself, and even if Germany had never been defeated on land, England's economic might, coupled with her seapower would have kept her freedom intact.
     
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,733
    In nuclear weapons we have an overwhelming advantage, but British and French nuclear submarine missiles are not to be dismissed casually. Of course we have not had a nuclear war in 60 years.

    But in conventional military capability, the NATO allies offer quite a bit of firepower, manpower, and technology. The US has an edge in quality, of course. US forces are better equipped, better educated, better trained, more experienced, and more capable. But in terms of quantity (always important in wars of attrition) the Euros do have large forces. In fact, collectively they have more troops, more tanks, and almost as many combat aircraft. Only in naval vessels do they come up short, but their naval forces are still formidable and in some cases, nuclear-powered and nuclear-armed.

    These are powerful allies and they surely augment what we can do militarily. Europe could be a superpower itself if they could all get along. And they are moving in that direction with a common currency and economic union. It is important to us that a possible future pan-European superpower becomes a steadfast American ally, not a free agent.
     
  5. martin

    martin Banned Forever

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,026
    Likes Received:
    934
    gross oversimplification. replace "is" with " is usually".

    true, but when they are stupid jackass wimps who do not agree with us and are obstinate because of their inferiority complex, there isnt much we can do.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2002
    Messages:
    45,195
    Likes Received:
    8,733
    Sure there is. You smile and shake their hands and tell them what steadfast froggy gentlemen they are. Lafayette, we are here!

    Later, over Guinness in the pub with the Brits, you laugh and make fun of them.
     
  7. Mystikalilusion

    Mystikalilusion Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ok, the "I told you so's" have my permission to come point and laugh at me. . .

    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/weird_news/11099663.htm

    U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan called Thursday for a world treaty on terrorism that would outlaw attacks targeting civilians and establish a framework for a collective response to the global threat.

    Although the United Nations and its agencies already have 12 treaties covering terrorism, a universal definition has been elusive.

    Yes, because we all know terrorists adhere to treaties. . .

    And furthermore, if this news is weird in kentucky (see web link), then that says just about all we need to know about it.
     
  8. burlesontiger

    burlesontiger Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    75
    League of Nations:NO! Mr. Mussolini, you may NOT invade Ethiopia!
    Mussolini:But I want to! I must re-create the Roman empire!
    League:We said no! Now be a good boy, or else.....
    Mussolini:Or else what?
    League:Or you'll be in trouble!
    Mussolini invades anyway.
    League:Awww, screw it!
     

Share This Page