I'm not saying folks can't be upset. But, I think there's a fine line between coaching and execution. If you bench everyone, who are you going to put in, your walk ons? I can tell you're the type that just will continue to say, put this on the coach, fundamentals are all coaching, and fire the coach. But, this is the first season of college ball for many of the guys that LSU is asking now to win the game for them. Stringer is a freshman averaging almost 13 points, as is Turner. Cut the kids some slack, and have perspective that our freshmen kept a FAVORED MSU team in check most of the game.

I do agree with Green's shot selection being a little suspect. But he hits more than 1 out of 10. Trent's always been someone philosophically who preaches defense (they played that pretty well, limiting MSU to 58 points) and then let's the kids play on offense, if they're taking good shots (LSU got many open looks, and well, didn't hit them). You're choosing to look at the negatives, b/c we lost. Which again, is understandable, but short sighted.

Oh, and you missed the whole point of the Alabama thread. Anthony Grant is doing well b/c he's had a continuity of good players. Trent's foundation wasn't anything near Grant's. Wait a few years and see what the head to head is in year 4.

But, whatever, it's "fans" that go to one game, see a loss, and then throw up their hands, talk about how unfundamental a team is, and want to fire the coach... that's what worries me about the long road back for LSU basketball.

The fact that that 7' center is playing the kind of minutes he is AT ALL is testament to the deep problems we have with personnel. Much of that falls on the team's youth, but I have to say I have been disappointed with Trent's lack of progress in scrapping out a couple more wins and cleaning up the sloppy play. Maybe some strides will be made in the remaining SEC games.

At this point it's way too early to start grumbling IMO. Trent does have an established track record of turning struggling teams around. But I think it's safe to say that if we're still seeing these same problems play out next year with minimal improvement, then our problems run deeper than our players' lack of execution.

The extremely poor shot selection that has been a consistent problem all season is a coaching problem. Trent Johnson is a much better coach than he has shown this year, but damn.

Something tells me he won't miss your support.

Very good post/rebuttal. Way to stay responsive w/o getting argumentative. I agree with your comparisons of AG and TJ. TJ won 28 games and got to the final 16 in year 2, so lets see how that stacks up with AG.

Having said that, it does seem that for a coach whose reputation is fundamentals, they don't appear too fundamentally sound. I understand they are young, but many of the losses aren't even close, which goes beyond youth, and in the close ones, the execution seems so poor. And, how does a coach just focus on defense, and "let the players play on offense" when they are so poor on offense. I mean, if one year you have offensive minded players who are executing an offense that is well oiled, then yeah, let them play. But our offense is so poor, he needs to see the big picture and focus more on shot selection, having guys practice their shots over and over and over and over, and prepare more for the types of defenses they will face, i.e. in your face press, etc. If you don't score points, you won't win, irrespective of how good your defense is. He needs to see that the biggest weakness on this team right now is their offensive execution. If they improve that, they will improve their confidence, and then he can start re-focusing on D again. It seems like he needs to recognize strengths and weaknesses of his team a little better to me. Right now, focusing on improving that area of greatest weakness is the bigger priority, imo.

Re the poor shot selection -- I suppose the best way to deal with this with players who constantly do this is to bench them. Outside of our starters, however, I wonder how much faith Trent has in these guys. It is frustrating for sure -- I hope the team can pick it up somewhat, win some games, and at least play a spoiler role.

:geauxtige

Ok, if we're really going to get into a debate about this, then I would like to understand what it is that you believe "fundamentals" are on offense versus "non-fundamentals" are. I ask b/c there's always an eye of the beholder phenomenon on offense---if the shot goes in the coach is a genius and if the shot doesn't, he isn't.

I haven't watched all of the games in close detail (I've watched all the games that were available on TV), but I'd point out that earlier in the season when Turner, Stringer (and Dotson for that matter) were hitting close to 40% of their 3s, the Tigers looked good on offense. They were scoring 70 points a game largely on their ability to shoot and opposing teams' relative willingness (or lack of tape/scouting) to let the young guards launch. The Tigers' confidence was higher and they were hitting. That was when Trent called it "fools gold" because the Tigers were winning, but not necessarily playing the defense and rebounding well. Now, of course, teams can take away your strength, it's SEC play and the young kids are finding it harder to get wide open 3s. They are also tighter and are missing.

Trent's philosophy on offense is also not to "restrict" shots too much because frankly, kids who are shooters need to shoot and shoot it in rhythm. If they're good open shots, Trent doesn't necessarily get down on kids taking shots. Generally, I think this is good because being too restrictive in this department usually leads to resentment of the coach (Brady would often get this, and guards wouldn't want to play in his system). That said, I think the thing you can't afford on offense is turnovers and bad shots. There are certainly times when Green does not need to launch a 3, if a waiting a bit leads to a better shot. There are also times when Stringer doesn't need to force a 3. Generally, I do think Trent coaches that. I've seen improvements from Stringer particularly here. But, we have to remember that the offense would look immensely better, if the guards tossed it down low to White or Green in the paint and they could score at a 50%+ clip. Too often, White or Green will either turn the ball over or not be able to effectively score (sometimes their low post play has been OK, but then when they get fouled, they're not hitting their FTs). That imbalance leads to Trent telling Turner, Derenbecker, Stringer, shoot it. Now, when the 3 point shots aren't falling, that looks bad. To put it in football terms so folks can get it, it's like when JJ rolls out and just has to hit a 7 yard pass out into the flat and overthrows it. The inability to hit the relatively easy offensive play leads to lack of rhythm that then makes the entire offense bog down. It's also a matter of things like sloppy ball handling and turnovers, that I've seen from the likes of Bass, Ludwig, just as often as Stringer or Derenbecker.

So, I think the Tigers on offense are largely feeling the effects of bad shooting and the inability to find a go to, consistent scoring output. They need to develop some consistency to get out of this rut. Someone needs to step up and establish themselves with the consistency. If they can do that, you'll be amazed at how quickly things can turn around.

Trent does need to continue to keep coaching the "fundamentals", but I'd argue that that's a matter of finding some simple executable plays to get kids taking shots in the right spots for them, cutting down silly turnovers on good passes, and well, after that, kids just have to hit shots.

I think the best sign is we are not losing by 20 anymore. It's coming...just need to get it for 40 minutes.

Fair enough. I'll buy what you are selling, and hope these components of our offense start to gel and we start seeing more competitive and consistent results.

Not looking bad tonight at Ole Miss... Not perfect but better!