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More Bush lies

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by CottonBowl'66, Feb 21, 2004.

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CottonBowl'66 Founding Member

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Originally posted by dallastigers
I guess Clinton, Gore, Kerry all lied as well, so I guess that means you voted for Nadar and Perot the past three elections and will have to vote for Nadar again.
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Yeah, sure: "Clinton made Bush do it." The sister to this lie is "The UN backed the Iraqi War."

The one thing that unites all right wingers is the ability to tell one outrageous bald-faced lie after another repeatedly when the facts are not on their side.

CottonBowl'66, Feb 28, 2004

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film maker you are also way late on this. Posting an article from June. Kay's report was in Oct.

thread link

link

cnn link

quote:
Despite arduous working conditions and an inhospitable and often threatening environment, the ISG ... has performed its important mission with great skill and the utmost integrity," Kay said in a written statement. "While there are many unresolved issues, I am confident that the ISG will do everything possible to answer remaining questions about the former Iraqi regime's WMD efforts."

Also as far as your stockpile quote is there a difference between stockpiling WMDs and maintaining or looking into the ability to produce them (covertly in some cases)? Particularly when you are talking about someone who has used chemical weapons in the past.

Kay just mentions no stockpiles here.

quote:
But though Kay has said new information has been uncovered about Iraq's programs -- particularly its efforts to build missiles -- he has since concluded there are no weapons stockpiles to be found.

"I don't think they existed," Kay told Reuters on Friday. "What everyone was talking about is stockpiles produced after the end of the [1991] gulf war, and I don't think there was a large-scale production program in the '90s."

Cottonbowel do not just cherry pick the one sentence from Kay that you like without looking into all of them. I am glad you finally learned how to post a link. Maybe with time you will learn to post links that actually back up your claims.

Kay in OCT 2003 about other non-stockpile issues.

quote:
Why are we having such difficulty in finding weapons or in reaching a confident conclusion that they do not exist or that they once existed but have been removed? Our search efforts are being hindered by six principal factors:

1. From birth, all of Iraq's WMD activities were highly compartmentalized within a regime that ruled and kept its secrets through fear and terror and with deception and denial built into each program;

2. Deliberate dispersal and destruction of material and documentation related to weapons programs began pre-conflict and ran trans-to-post conflict;

3. Post-OIF looting destroyed or dispersed important and easily collectable material and forensic evidence concerning Iraq's WMD program. As the report covers in detail, significant elements of this looting were carried out in a systematic and deliberate manner, with the clear aim of concealing pre-OIF activities of Saddam's regime;

4. Some WMD personnel crossed borders in the pre/trans conflict period and may have taken evidence and even weapons-related materials with them;

5. Any actual WMD weapons or material is likely to be small in relation to the total conventional armaments footprint and difficult to near impossible to identify with normal search procedures. It is important to keep in mind that even the bulkiest materials we are searching for, in the quantities we would expect to find, can be concealed in spaces not much larger than a two car garage;

6. The environment in Iraq remains far from permissive for our activities, with many Iraqis that we talk to reporting threats and overt acts of intimidation and our own personnel being the subject of threats and attacks. In September alone we have had three attacks on ISG facilities or teams: The ISG base in Irbil was bombed and four staff injured, two very seriously; a two person team had their vehicle blocked by gunmen and only escaped by firing back through their own windshield; and on Wednesday, 24 September, the ISG Headquarters in Baghdad again was subject to mortar attack.

What have we found and what have we not found in the first 3 months of our work?

We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:

· A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.

· A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.

· Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.

· New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.

· Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).

· A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.

· Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.

· Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km -- well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.

· Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment.

In addition to the discovery of extensive concealment efforts, we have been faced with a systematic sanitization of documentary and computer evidence in a wide range of offices, laboratories, and companies suspected of WMD work. The pattern of these efforts to erase evidence -- hard drives destroyed, specific files burned, equipment cleaned of all traces of use -- are ones of deliberate, rather than random, acts.

For example,

· On 10 July 2003 an ISG team exploited the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC) Headquarters in Baghdad. The basement of the main building contained an archive of documents situated on well-organized rows of metal shelving. The basement suffered no fire damage despite the total destruction of the upper floors from coalition air strikes. Upon arrival the exploitation team encountered small piles of ash where individual documents or binders of documents were intentionally destroyed. Computer hard drives had been deliberately destroyed. Computers would have had financial value to a random looter; their destruction, rather than removal for resale or reuse, indicates a targeted effort to prevent Coalition forces from gaining access to their contents.

· All IIS laboratories visited by IIS exploitation teams have been clearly sanitized, including removal of much equipment, shredding and burning of documents, and even the removal of nameplates from office doors.

· Although much of the deliberate destruction and sanitization of documents and records probably occurred during the height of OIF combat operations, indications of significant continuing destruction efforts have been found after the end of major combat operations, including entry in May 2003 of the locked gated vaults of the Ba'ath party intelligence building in Baghdad and highly selective destruction of computer hard drives and data storage equipment along with the burning of a small number of specific binders that appear to have contained financial and intelligence records, and in July 2003 a site exploitation team at the Abu Ghurayb Prison found one pile of the smoldering ashes from documents that was still warm to the touch.

I would now like to review our efforts in each of the major lines of enquiry that ISG has pursued during this initial phase of its work.

With regard to biological warfare activities, which has been one of our two initial areas of focus, ISG teams are uncovering significant information -- including research and development of BW-applicable organisms, the involvement of Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) in possible BW activities, and deliberate concealment activities. All of this suggests Iraq after 1996 further compartmentalized its program and

focused on maintaining smaller, covert capabilities that could be activated quickly to surge the production of BW agents.

Debriefings of IIS officials and site visits have begun to unravel a clandestine network of laboratories and facilities within the security service apparatus. This network was never declared to the UN and was previously unknown.

We are still working on determining the extent to which this network was tied to large-scale military efforts or BW terror weapons, but this clandestine capability was suitable for preserving BW expertise, BW capable facilities and continuing R&D -- all key elements for maintaining a capability for resuming BW production.

The IIS also played a prominent role in sponsoring students for overseas graduate studies in the biological sciences, according to Iraqi scientists and IIS sources, providing an important avenue for furthering BW-applicable research.

This was the only area of graduate work that the IIS appeared to sponsor.

Discussions with Iraqi scientists uncovered agent R&D work that paired overt work with nonpathogenic organisms serving as surrogates for prohibited investigation with pathogenic agents.

Examples include: B. Thurengiensis (Bt) with B. anthracis (anthrax), and medicinal plants with ricin.

In a similar vein, two key former BW scientists, confirmed that Iraq under the guise of legitimate activity developed refinements of processes and products relevant to BW agents. The scientists discussed the development of improved, simplified fermentation and spray drying capabilities for the simulant Bt that would have been directly applicable to anthrax, and one scientist confirmed that the production line for Bt could be switched to produce anthrax in one week if the seed stock were available.

A very large body of information has been developed through debriefings, site visits, and exploitation of captured Iraqi documents that confirms that Iraq concealed equipment and materials from UN inspectors when they returned in 2002.

One noteworthy example is a collection of reference strains that ought to have been declared to the UN.

Among them was a vial of live C. botulinum Okra B. from which a biological agent can be produced.

This discovery -- hidden in the home of a BW scientist -- illustrates the point I made earlier about the difficulty of locating small stocks of material that can be used to covertly surge production of deadly weapons.

The scientist who concealed the vials containing this agent has identified a large cache of agents that he was asked, but refused, to conceal. ISG is actively searching for this second cache.

Additional information is beginning to corroborate reporting since 1996 about human testing activities using chemical and biological substances, but progress in this area is slow given the concern of knowledgeable Iraqi personnel about their being prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

We have not yet been able to corroborate the existence of a mobile BW production effort. Investigation into the origin of and intended use for the two trailers found in northern Iraq in April has yielded a number of explanations, including hydrogen, missile propellant, and BW production, but technical limitations would prevent any of these processes from being ideally suited to these trailers. That said, nothing we have discovered rules out their potential use in BW production.

We have made significant progress in identifying and locating individuals who were reportedly involved in a mobile program, and we are confident that we will be able to get an answer to the questions as to whether there was a mobile program and whether the trailers that have been discovered so far were part of such a program.

Let me turn now to chemical weapons (CW). In searching for retained stocks of chemical munitions, ISG has had to contend with the almost unbelievable scale of Iraq's conventional weapons armory, which dwarfs by orders of magnitude the physical size of any conceivable stock of chemical weapons.

For example, there are approximately 130 known Iraqi Ammunition Storage Points (ASP), many of which exceed 50 square miles in size and hold an estimated 600,000 tons of artillery shells, rockets, aviation bombs and other ordinance. Of these 130 ASPs, approximately 120 still remain unexamined.

As Iraqi practice was not to mark much of their chemical ordinance and to store it at the same ASPs that held conventional rounds, the size of the required search effort is enormous.

While searching for retained weapons, ISG teams have developed multiple sources that indicate that Iraq explored the possibility of CW production in recent years, possibly as late as 2003.

When Saddam had asked a senior military official in either 2001 or 2002 how long it would take to produce new chemical agent and weapons, he told ISG that after he consulted with CW experts in OMI he responded it would take six months for mustard.

Another senior Iraqi chemical weapons expert in responding to a request in mid-2002 from Uday Husayn for CW for the Fedayeen Saddam estimated that it would take two months to produce mustard and two years for Sarin...

quote:
They have told ISG that Saddam Husayn remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons. These officials assert that Saddam would have resumed nuclear weapons development at some future point. Some indicated a resumption after Iraq was free of sanctions.

At least one senior Iraqi official believed that by 2000 Saddam had run out of patience with waiting for sanctions to end and wanted to restart the nuclear program.

The Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC) beginning around 1999 expanded its laboratories and research activities and increased its overall funding levels.

This expansion may have been in initial preparation for renewed nuclear weapons research, although documentary evidence of this has not been found, and this is the subject of continuing investigation by ISG.

Starting around 2000, the senior Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC) and high-level Ba'ath Party official Dr. Khalid Ibrahim Sa'id began several small and relatively unsophisticated research initiatives that could be applied to nuclear weapons development.

These initiatives did not in-and-of themselves constitute a resumption of the nuclear weapons program, but could have been useful in developing a weapons-relevant science base for the long-term. We do not yet have information indicating whether a higher government authority directed Sa'id to initiate this research and, regretfully, Dr. Said was killed on April 8th during the fall of Baghdad when the car he was riding in attempted to run a Coalition roadblock.
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thread with quote link

In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay,who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.

"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."

Dr Kay's comments will intensify pressure on President Bashar Assad to clarify the extent of his co-operation with Saddam's regime and details of Syria's WMD programme. Mr Assad has said that Syria was entitled to defend itself by acquiring its own biological and chemical weapons arsenal.
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link

quote:

On Friday, Polish troops discovered four anti-aircraft missiles that are believed to have been produced in Europe this year, a Polish defense ministry spokesman in Warsaw said.

While they are not weapons of mass destruction, the missiles were banned under a 1990 arms embargo.

Testing facility discovered

Kay's 1,200-person team has found two new facilities near a prison where it believes biological weapons tests were conducted on prisoners.

"We have taken senior Iraqi leaders in detention to them," Kay said. The leaders were those who evidence indicated had been involved in the experiments.

"They were clearly shaken up by being taken there," he said, adding they were afraid that "we would make them face a lineup" of victims.

Referring to samples of botulinum toxin Kay has reported finding in a scientist's home, he said the deadly toxins were stored in the scientist's family refrigerator, near their food, and he returned even more dangerous toxins back to his institute.

Kay said that Iraq had paid North Korea $10 million for No Dong missile technology but that the North Koreans did not give it to them. The Iraqis asked for their money back, and the North Koreans refused, he said.

"It's a lesson in negotiating with the North Koreans," he said
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cnn link

quote:
"I actually think the intelligence community owes the president rather than the president owing the American people," he said.

"We have to remember that this view of Iraq was held during the Clinton administration and didn't change in the Bush administration," Kay said.

"It is not a political 'gotcha' issue. It is a serious issue of 'How you can come to a conclusion that is not matched in the future?'"

Other countries' intelligence agencies shared the U.S. conclusion that Iraq had stockpiled such weapons, though most disagreed with the United States about how best to respond.

quote:
Despite not finding any WMD, Kay said his team found that the Iraqi senior leadership "had an intention to continue to pursue their WMD activities. That they, in fact, had a large number of WMD-related activities."

Kay predicted investigators would find that Iraqi scientists were "working on developing weapons or weapons concepts that they had not moved into actual production."

quote:
Kay also raised the possibility -- one he first discussed in a weekend interview with "The Sunday Telegraph" of London -- that clues about banned weapons programs might reside across Iraq's western border.

"There is ample evidence of movement to Syria before the war -- satellite photographs, reports on the ground of a constant stream of trucks, cars, rail traffic across the border. We simply don't know what was moved," Kay said.

But, he said, "the Syrian government there has shown absolutely no interest in helping us resolve this issue."

Kay acknowledged that the truth might never be revealed. Widespread looting in Baghdad after the invasion destroyed many government records. "There's always going to be unresolved ambiguity here."
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cnn link

If you have time before the oscars maybe you can try your fiction on these.

dallastigers, Feb 28, 2004

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dallastigers Founding Member

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Originally posted by CottonBowl'66
Yeah, sure: "Clinton made Bush do it." The sister to this lie is "The UN backed the Iraqi War."

The one thing that unites all right wingers is the ability to tell one outrageous bald-faced lie after another repeatedly when the facts are not on their side.
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You quote me, but then put in quotes "Clinton made Bush do it" Did you read that in my post? or is this just more proof that you cannot read.

dallastigers, Feb 28, 2004

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CottonBowl'66 Founding Member

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dallas, every one of your posts is proof that you cannot understand what you read.

CottonBowl'66, Feb 28, 2004

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dallastigers Founding Member

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Originally posted by MiketheTiger69
These W drones remind me of an abused woman. The guy beats the snot out of her and then makes her believe it was her fault and what she deserved and she apologizes to him. All the evidence is there to the contrary but she refuses to believe it because he has her convinced that what he is doing is in her best interest and that he "loves" her. No matter how many broken bones or black eyes he gives her or how many teeth he knocks out, he convinces her to keep coming back for more, until one day he kills her and then it's too late.
Unfortunately, the innocent involved in her life have to suffer right along with her. And most likely the guy gets off scot free to go and do it to someone else. Hopefully, they'll wake up and not subject the rest of us to another beating, but I doubt it.
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What a stupid comparison?

You are just angry, because the government will not support you financially. I know people that are in wheel chairs that do not whine as much as you do. They just go out and work. Do not blame Bush for poor choice of employers.

dallastigers, Feb 28, 2004

#25
dallastigers Founding Member

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Originally posted by CottonBowl'66
dallas, every one of your posts is proof that you cannot understand what you read.
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That is pretty funny coming from you. I guess you at least have a sense of humor about your condition.

dallastigers, Feb 28, 2004

#26
dallastigers Founding Member

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Re: I just couldn't resist

Originally posted by phatcat
[BLet's first explore his lies used to convince the American public about why we needed to immediately, and against the best judgement of some of our oldest and most trusted allies, invade and overthrow the government of Iraq, since that is probably his most impeachable offense.
[/B]
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Would this be Clinton's lies as well?

Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave the lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months, and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM.

In 1995 Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more. Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities--and weapons stocks. Previously it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth.

Now listen to this: What did it admit? It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability, notably, 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production. . . .

Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door, and our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it. . . .

Over the past few months, as [the weapons inspectors] have come closer and closer to rooting out Iraq's remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions by imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still not been inspected off limits, including, I might add, one palace in Baghdad more than 2,600 acres large. . . .

One of these presidential sites is about the size of Washington, D.C. . . .

It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons. . . .

Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction.

And some day, some way, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal. . . . In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now--a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers, or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam, and all those who would follow in his footsteps, will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council, and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program
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link

Of course he backed down in the face of "our trusted allies" which we see some were getting pretty good oil deals

Jan. 29 — ABCNEWS has obtained an extraordinary list that contains the names of prominent people around the world who supported Saddam Hussein's regime and were given oil contracts as a result.

All of the contracts were awarded from late 1997 until the U.S.-led war in March 2003. They were conducted under the aegis of the United Nations' oil-for-food program, which was designed to allow Iraq to sell oil in exchange for humanitarian goods.

The document was discovered several weeks ago in the files of the Iraqi Oil Ministry in Baghdad.

According to a copy obtained by ABCNEWS, some 270 prominent individuals, political parties or corporations in 47 countries were on a list of those given Iraq oil contracts instantly worth millions of dollars.

Today, the U.S.Treasury Department said that any American citizens found to be illegally involved could face prosecution.

"You are looking at a political slush fund that was buying political support for the regime of Saddam Hussein for the last six or seven years," said financial investigator John Fawcett.

Investigators say none of the people involved would have actually taken possession of oil, but rather just the right to buy the oil at a discounted price, which could be resold to a legitimate broker or oil company, at an average profit of about 50 cents a barrel.

List Includes Prominent Names

Among those named: Indonesia President Megawati Sukarnoputri, an outspoken opponent of U.S.-Iraq policy, who received a contract for 10 million barrels of oil — about a $5 million profit.

The son of the Syrian defense minister received 6 million barrels, according to the document, worth about $3 million.

George Galloway, a British member of Parliament, was also on the list to receive 19 million barrels of oil, a $90.5 million profit. A vocal critic of the Iraq war, Galloway denied any involvement to ABCNEWS earlier this year.

"I've never seen a bottle of oil, owned one or bought one," Galloway said in a previous interview with ABCNEWS.

According to the document, France was the second-largest beneficiary, with tens of millions of barrels awarded to Patrick Maugein, a close political associate and financial backer of French President Jacques Chirac.

Maugein, individually and through companies connected to him, received contracts for some 36 million barrels. Chirac's office said it was unaware of Maugein's deals, which Maugein told ABCNEWS are perfectly legal.

The single biggest set of contracts were given to the Russian government and Russian political figures, more than 1.3 billion barrels in all — including 92 million barrels to individual officials in the office of President Vladimir Putin.

Another 1 million barrels were contracted to the Russian ambassador to Baghdad, 137 million barrels of oil were given to the Russian Communist Party, and 5 million barrels were contracted to the Russian Orthodox Church.

Also on the list are the names of prominent journalists, two Iraqi-Americans, and a French priest who organized a meeting between the pope and Tariq Aziz, Saddam's deputy prime minister.

The following are the names of some of those who, according to the document, received Iraqi oil contracts (amounts are in millions of barrels of oil):

Russia
The Companies of the Russian Communist Party: 137 million
The Companies of the Liberal Democratic Party: 79.8 million
The Russian Committee for Solidarity with Iraq: 6.5 million and 12.5 million (2 separate contracts)
Head of the Russian Presidential Cabinet: 90 million
The Russian Orthodox Church: 5 million

France
Charles Pasqua, former minister of interior: 12 million
Trafigura (Patrick Maugein), businessman: 25 million
Ibex: 47.2 million
Bernard Merimee, former French ambassador to the United Nations: 3 million
Michel Grimard, founder of the French-Iraqi Export Club: 17.1 million..
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continued at abcnews

dallastigers, Feb 28, 2004

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MiketheTiger69 Founding Member

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Originally posted by dallastigers
What a stupid comparison?

You are just angry, because the government will not support you financially. I know people that are in wheel chairs that do not whine as much as you do. They just go out and work. Do not blame Bush for poor choice of employers.
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What a moron!!!!!!
Nowhere have you ever read me whine about the government not taking care of me! And nowhere have you ever read that I am angry. Quite the contrary, in spite of my diasbility, I live a pretty good life. I don't allow myself to get caught up in self-pity.
The point I've been trying to make, which obviously is lost on you, is that this administration tells you one thing and then does something different and then makes people like you believe they did what they said they were going to do in the beginning and then makes you like what they actually did by convincing you they care about you.
And people like you just accept it and follow along blindly. Good Americans, good patriots.
Republicans don't give a rats ass about the common working man. The common working man to them is no more than a piece of equipment to be used up and replaced when he is worn out. They make you believe they are looking out for your best interests all the while screwing you. Big business and the Religious Right are what they are made of, one group a bunch of greedy industrialists that would enslave the common worker if they could and the other a bunch of lunatics like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggert, Oral Roberts, etc. etc. These people have no more idea about the true teachings of Christ than the Pharisees and the Saducees had.
Like I told someone else, you don't know me so don't presume to know whether I'm angry or feel sorry for myself or anything else.

MiketheTiger69, Feb 28, 2004

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I guess you would put me in that category as well as I had to take an early disability retirement and draw SS because my former employer saw fit to make me work in a dangerous situation which caused me to have three major back surgeries and probably another. For my continued pain and suffering for the rest of my life, I got the grand sum of $80,000.00 . I'm 55 now. That's really gonna go a long way, ain't it?
I guess I should be glad I got that, because one of your heroes, Frank Keating, was governor of the great state of Oklahome at the time. He was so caring that he wanted to practically do away with workmans comp completely. Yessir, us bums, we deserve every damn thing we get!
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With the Republican run government appointing Republican conservative business oriented judges and the Republican DOL head, WC and workplace safety for the working man in this state has been stripped to practically nothing. There is no such thing as work rehab here anymore. You are left to the mercy of the company as far as the drs. you use unless you have excellent representation, which I did.
And I would say, never being able to work again and living in constant pain is a pretty severe disability.
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Republicans don't give a rats ass about the common working man. The common working man to them is no more than a piece of equipment to be used up and replaced when he is worn out. They make you believe they are looking out for your best interests all the while screwing you.
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Sounds a little angry and whining to me. In this day and age unless you are a vegetable (which your posts do leave some doubt on this) you can attempt to find something to do. The work may not be what you want to settle for, but if that is what it is than that is what it is. I know people who have had multiple back surgeries and people who have performed multiple back surgeries, and there is other ways to get back up to where they were before one way or another. The only ones that I know that did not are because of addiction to pain killers not because of still having true problems with their backs that stopped them from working at all.

dallastigers, Feb 28, 2004

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phatcat Founding Member

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Now what?

My gosh, Dallasheadupmyass, it appears you can't be left alone for a minute without starting one of your childish mud slinging spats.

It looks to me like you need a time out in order to go to a quiet place where you can think about things little mister.

Once you've calmed down enough to continue, let's try to stay on point here in this thread, shall we?

Now, back to the business of that habitual liar in the white house.

Personally, I have to admit to a perverse joy in watching republicans go after each other like the jackels they are, and articles written by republicans pillorying other republicans are just about guaranteed to make me smile.

As far as my earlier post of the article by John Dean concerning Bush's eventual impeachment, I don't think you gave Mr. Dean's deadly focus on Bush's fabricational presidency it's due.

In another article written by Dean, he discusses Bushes overall pattern of lies, breaking them down into categories and rates them in several compelling ways.

He analyzes the work of the Washington editor of The Nation , David Corn, who has written a powerful -- not to mention disquieting -- 324-page polemic addressing the pervasive mendacity (that's LIES) of George W. Bush's administration. It is entitled The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception.

If you are honestly interested in the impeachability of Dubya, give it a read.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20031024.html

Dean of course doesn't stop there. I suppose Bush's lies hold the same type fascination for him that might be found in the Scott Peterson trial for the rest of us, as in "how the f*ck does he think we are so stupid as to believe that?"

He has written a book entitled "Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush" in which he supposedly really turns up the heat on your favorite liar. I say supposidly because the book will not be available until April.

This election sure is shaping up to be scads more fun than the last one, don'tchya think?

phatcat, Feb 28, 2004

#30

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