Netanyahu and Iran politics

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by uscvball, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    So Boehner thinks he's King Dick, invites Netanyahu, and Israel claims the invitation was from a bi-partisan group. Meanwhile, Democrats say nobody on their side was in on it (I bet Melendez was). Pelosi says Congress is not in the habit of inviting people without including the White House but she didn't seem to have a problem with the Pope being invited and in fact, was happy to hear he would be addressing Congress.

    Obama doesn't want to influence elections although it seems unlikely that a visit by the PM would have much influence. Obama doesn't want to shake current negotiations but even he admitted before this latest issue, that negotiations had little chance of success. And it's almost funny that we should walk on egg shells when the Iranians announced just a week ago that they would be building 2 nuclear reactors.

    Senators Kirk-R and Melendez-D are drafting legislation that would force more sanctions if Iran fails to negotiate by the June deadline. Obama says he will kill any legislation on the issue.

    Obama will not meet with Netanyahu. He did meet yesterday with GloZell, youtube phenom. American politics at it's finest.
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  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Yahu is a loose cannon who has publicly disrespected the President more than once. They can't stand each other. No way he gets a meeting with Obama on his terms. The Republicans are just playing politics to their base, once again ignoring that the path to the White House must include the moderates, who are not fooled.

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  3. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    If he's a loose cannon, then why would Obama worry about influencing an election? Both sides are playing politics. The President threw down the gauntlet when he said he would veto any sanction legislation even though he has little confidence in the negotiation process and Iran just announced 2 nuclear plants. His own party is grumbling and he alludes to not pandering to Jewish donors.

    Why was Pelosi okay with the Pope but not Netanyahu? We have a bi-partisan effort with this legislation, common ground, and yet Obama won't even look at it.

    Sharon? Really? Come on. That's like asking Obama what he thought about Hillary before the election. They were adversaries and Sharon lost the Likud party to Netanyahu not to mention his "reason and judgment" caused the Sabra massacre and his own resignation.

    And it still looks stupid for the POTUS to waste his time talking to a YouTube moron with dayglo lipstick while refusing to speak to a world leader that we claim as an ally.
     
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  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    He's a loose cannon in middle east geopolitics. He is rash, reactionary and defensive to the point of pertinacity. Foreign policy is the responsibility of the Executive, not of Congress. Boehner directly seeks to undercut the president’s top diplomatic initiative. This announcement is a chickenshit political move by the Republicans timed to throw water on the State of the Union speech. It was not a bi-partisan invitation, as Yahu suggested.

    What a shock!

    Congress cannot simply take over foreign relations without involving the President. He will veto anything that flies in the face of his perogative as the Executive an ongoing multi-national negotiations. The GOP is wasting time and political capital as usual. Yahu is just being himself. The Yahu and his Republican minions are determined to drive the Iranians away from the negotiating table and push this into yet another expensive, unwinnable middle eastern war. How well do you think that will fly in 2016? The GOP are really poor political strategists.

    The Pope is not a player in important middle east foreign policy, obviously. Nor does he play partisan politics with the US government. What a stretch!

    Netanyahu is shooting himself in the foot by turning this into a partisan issue. He is forcing Democratic members to choose between Boehner and Obama, instead of the dubious merits of the GOP plan. Any chance of Congress and the White House getting on-board with Yahu's notion of what the USA should be doing to Iran on behalf of Israel has flown out the window.

    Not just Sharon. There are a lot of Israelis upset with him. Yahu has created a rift with the Israeli Mossad over Iran sanctions as well. My money is on Mossad in the long run.

    Netanyahu’s Likud party is trailing the revitalized Labor party in public opinion polls, the prime minister is seemingly happy to throw Obama and the White House under the bus if it means improving his image among Likud voters. That may turn out to be a major miscalculation. Netanyahu’s actions have the potential to boomerang against him both in the United States and in Israel.

    For years, Israeli leaders have gone to great lengths to make support for Israel a bipartisan issue. Yet Netanyahu has repeatedly sided with the GOP against Obama — so much so that he is often derisively referred to as the Republican senator from Israel. Israelis are increasingly concerned that the US-Israel bilateral relationship is in crisis — and they believe that Netanyahu is responsible. Undermining that relationship only weeks before a national election may have the perverse effect of reminding Israelis why another term for Netanyahu could be so dangerous for the country.

    Yahu does not want to talk with Obama or he wouldn't have pulled this arrogant ploy. He's trying to embarrass Obama again and only making himself look like a fool to his own people.

    The End of Benjamin Netanyahu
     
  5. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    Boehner met Obama at the intersection of "fuck you". The President has acted without Congressional input plenty of times. But foreign policy is not strictly the President's domain. Both the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and House Committee on Foreign Affairs play a key oversight role and clearly Congress has to vote to pay for the shit.
    Says?

    Drive the Iranians away? What do you think their announcement of 2 nuclear plants is? They are driving themselves away and prove they are not interested in negotiating. Aren't you always touting sanctions? What is wrong with sanctions should Iran fail to negotiate prior to the June deadline?

    Pelosi is the one who said "people", not me. Clearly she is okay with the Pope because she is a Catholic. He is the first religious leader to address Congress.

    Bibi isn't forcing anything. Obama and Melendez have had a heated exchange on this issue and well before Netanyahu entered the picture.

    Point being, Sharon was a foe and he's dead so, who really cares what he thinks at this point?

    The Mossad? Not so fast. "Kerry said publicly on Wednesday that one of Israel’s top intelligence officials – a reference Bloomberg later reported was Pardo – told a visiting Senate delegation earlier in the week that increasing sanctions now “would be like throwing a grenade into the process.”

    Were the Mossad to take that position, it would directly contradict the policy of Netanyahu, who is calling for tougher sanctions against Iran.

    According to the Mossad statement, Pardo met on Monday, with Netanyahu’s approval, with the Senate delegation and emphasized the “exceptional effectiveness of the sanctions imposed on Iran in recent years,” noting that the sanctions are what drove Iran to the negotiation table. Pardo said it is ”essential” in talks with Iran to present both carrots and sticks, and that currently the sticks are lacking.

    He also said that in the absence of strong pressure, the Iranians will not make meaningful compromises.

    Regrading the use of the phrase “throwing a grenade,” cited by Kerry, the statement clarified that Pardo did not use that expression regarding the imposition of sanctions, which he believes are the “sticks” necessary to reach a “good deal” with Iran. Rather, the statement read, Pardo used that expression “as a metaphor to describe the possibility of creating a temporary crisis in the negotiations at the end of which talks would resume under improved conditions.”

    The President has played a contrarian role to Netanyahu and Israel just as much as he's gotten. His constant jibes and even negative comments (Binyamin Netanyahu seems to have been the target of some ugly — if off the record — barbs from President Obama and French President Nicolas Sarkozy. Speaking privately (they thought) following a news conference in Cannes last week, Sarkozy said “I cannot bear” Netanyahu, adding that he was “a liar... “You’re fed up, but I have to deal with him every day,” Obama responded.") have been insulting and embarrassing for a world leader.
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    Curious though....why do you call him Yahu?
     
  6. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    And really, are you okay with the POTUS declining a world leader one day and taking an interview with glozell the next? The President said that sometimes he doesn't understand how his public image is important....like not showing in Paris. I think he still doesn't get it.
     
  7. HalloweenRun

    HalloweenRun Founding Member

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    Perhaps our greatest foreign policy F-up has been with the Iranians. The man on the street loved us, but we F'd with them, unmercifully, and the religious nuts took over. (there is that pesky religious thing fouling things up again)

    We stayed with the horse we were riding (der Shah) way too long.

    Alas, I just can't get those undulating golden bodies out of my mind!

    If we could get cozy again, with IRAN, that would drive my man, Putin, catatonic.
     
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  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Key word--oversight. The President is the point man of foreign relations and the Congress does the nation a disservice by undercutting him and trying to do it themselves.

    Reid and Pelosi, the leaders of the other party, among others.
    Invitation to Netanyahu to address U.S. Congress: When bipartisan means partisan

    There are few more sanctions that can be applied to Iran before we start talking blockade, which is an act of war. When the negotiation are over, its bombs away. This time Yahu wants the United States to do it instead of Israel. Light water reactors for power generation are not prohibited by the UN Security Council resolutions. Iran is playing hardball in the negotiations and so are we.

    I'm OK with the Pope and I'm not Catholic. I repeat, he is not a partisan political leader in the Middle East.

    You miss the point. "Bibi" tripped on his pecker by making this a partisan issue. The democratic support that Boehner has expected will evaporate now.

    The point I was making is that Yahu has political problems at home because of his rash and inflexible nature. This has cost him his job twice before. He is not speaking entirely on behalf of Israel on this occasion, he is speaking in behalf of himself. Israelis are as divisive and partisan as ourselves.

    That's what I've been saying. Yahu has lost Mossad and much of the Israeli citizens. He's doubling down and doing all of this for political reasons, not necessarily in Israel's best interests.
    Israeli Mossad Goes Rogue, Warns U.S. on Iran Sanctions

    It's all in response to the disrespect Netanyahu has earned on the international stage.

    Because he's a Yahoo . . . a cowboy . . . a maverick. He pours gasoline on fires and disrespects his allies. Obama has provided Israel with the largest amount of American military aid in U.S. history. He has doubled the air defense aid that the Bush administration provided to Israel. His diplomatic support for Israel is unprecedented. He voted with Israel 100% of the time in the UN, a first in US history. Israelis realize how important this relationship is and are dismayed at The Yahu risking it by getting involved with American domestic politics and trying to make Obama look bad. Especially since Obama has been a consistent supporter of Israel. Netanhayu expects the President of the United States of America to kiss his ass to boot, but that ain't happening. He misreads the deep-seated opinion of both the American people and the Israelis. He knows exactly who is holding the cards but he bluffs, gambles, and pisses off everybody at the table.

    “I would like to express my gratitude to the President of the United States, Barack Obama. I asked for his help. ... He said, ‘I will do everything I can.’ And so he did. ... We owe him a special measure of gratitude.” -- Benjamin Netanyahu
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Which is the lesson we learned well when we did NOT repeat the same mistake by supporting Mubarak past the point where he had lost the Egyptian people.

    Which is exactly why the best way to deal with Iran is give them time to implode. There is serious unrest, political dissatisfaction, and stifled opposition in Iran. The country is getting younger and tiring of the aged ayatollahs. They have gotten brutal in suppressing dissent, which has only gone underground. The economy is bad, they are surrounded by threats and have made a serious long-standing enemy of the Superpower. Many Iranians want out of this. There is another revolution waiting to happen and we know it.

    Our best interests are served by not driving them together by threats of war which make them nationalistic and defensive, but by covertly supporting their dissenters and their pragmatists, driving the factions apart by making as many reasonable proposals as possible at the negotiating table. Despite the hardball at the table, there is significant disagreement behind it all in Iran and we stir that pot as much as possible. We win when the Iranians start killing each other instead of Israelis. Patience is sometimes what is needed when you hold the trump cards.

    "If you wait by the river long enough, the body of your enemy will float by." -- Sun Tzu
     
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  10. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    I don't know about Yall but I'm getting tired of Israel.
     

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