Get used to it. This is what you get with Democrats. Obama was suppose to have a transparent presidency.:insane: Pelosi was going to have the most ethical Congress ever.:lol:
Jeez, the statement you make to support your point of view is wrong right out of the box. Supa didn't touch most of my points, in fact he agreed with them. As far as your second point, just because a post is long does not make it incorrect. DRC and LSUAthletics match me in length, are their posts bad because they are long? Actually the thread I referred to on page 2 of this thread was full of long posts between me and DRC and it was complimented as much as any thread I've seen in FSA. This is not what I like to discuss, I can't learn anything from this line of posting, and I won't be responding to any of your sound bite posts. This is a waste of my time, and I won't do it anymore.
I believe what I believe. I don't really care what you and Red think and I don't waste my time writing dissertations to try and convince you I'm right. I'd never change your minds anyway.
I completely agree with 1-4. However, as the Gallup poll indicates the majority of folks are concerned with the national debt and more than half are "very concerned". This hurts consumer sentiment. Folks don't believe the country is headed in the right direction. If the consumers economic outlook is bleak they are more apt to hold off on major purchases. I think the burden should be on those that supported the stimulus bill to prove that it saved the economy from collapse. It's illogical to conclude since the stimulus was passed and there was no depression that it worked. I don't recall any mainstream economist stating a depression would occur without a stimulus bill. Unfortunately, we can't count on this administration to supply credible evidence that the stimulus is working since it has and continues to overstate job creation numbers out of desperation to make it appear the stimulus has been a success. The only thing we know for certain is the initial price tag was $789 billion. It's believed by some the true cost will go as high as $3.27 trillion! Since we have already agreed that the national debt will decrease the dollar and lead to a lower standard of living you prove to me the stimulus was worth it. True Cost of Stimulus: $3.27 Trillion The Foundry I stand corrected. The projections are for the deficit to double but $19 trillion is still mind boggling. You mean those Bush tax cuts that democrats blame for the deficits? You want to use them for new spending? This country can't afford it. Whatever extra revenue that is derived from the expiration of the Bush tax cuts could be used to pay down the national debt instead. You can spin it all you want but if the house health care bill passes the end result will be a $1.2 trillion higher national debt than if it didn't pass. You either use the tax increase to pay down existing debt or you use the extra revenue to pay for new spending and continue to have out of control deficits. The Reagan tax cuts worked wonderfully. Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record | William A. Niskanen and Stephen Moore | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis This I agree with.
Describe such a proof. How would you prove it? What would the argument sound like? Why? What are the logical conclusions that can be drawn, and explain why? How about the former Fed Chairman, Alan Greenspan, recently speaking: Nouriel Roubini Sees Double-Dip Recession Risk, in Remarks Down Under - Real Time Economics - WSJ Actually you would never hear a major economist come out and say prior to a depression that the economy is headed into a depression. There words themselves would panic everyone, they would ALL stop spending, and the words themselves could turn a recession into a depression. Such discussion will typically occur after stability is believed to have been achieved, such as Greenspan does here. Then you don't risk making the situation worse. Plus, nobody's crystal ball is that good. You are playing the odds. Greenspan always hedges his opinion, "he thinks" collapse if now off the table, but he's not sure, so MAYBE collapse is still on the table. That would suggest that we could be far from the end of this, and all the danger is not gone. Then we have this from Nouriel Roubini in 2007, Dr. Doom, economist from NYU, who is one of the few who has gotten it right is stating in advance the scope and depth of the problems, note his comment about a "global HARD LANDING": Dr. Doom Has Some Good News - The Atlantic (July/August 2009) And then, just for good measure, we have Stephen Roach: Stephen S. Roach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So, Greenspan now says he THINKS collapse is off the table, and Roubini who is one of the few economists who understood and predicted a US housing crisis, recession, followed by a "global HARD LANDING", and he has praise for Geithner and for the administrations response to the crisis. Stephen Roach in 2004 says the US is headed for an Economic Armageddon... I don't know who you read, but the information was out there, and I'm happy to say I listened to these guys and to others who publish private "for a fee" letters that you will never see quoted in the press.
You're adopting my style. Nice. I'm not an economics expert. Never claimed to be. I am, however, intelligent and I am able to grasp what I hear and read. I hear both sides and I make up my mind. Simply put, Obama and his cronies are spending us into bolivia and recovery, if even possible, will be long and difficult. By the way. Unemployment 10.2%. How's that stimulus thing working out for you?
But there were regulations preventing the abuses that happened after the Bush administration removed the regulations in 2004. It was not offering loans to poor people that caused the mortgage crisis. It was loaning money for people to buy mansions even though they could not afford it. It was allowing banks to package mortgages into "investment" packages.
I am anything but an Obama fan, but I would not classify this as a lie (a deliberate distortion of the truth). Some agencies reported bad stats and Obama accepted them. He definately acted too quickly; he should have double-checked the figures, but in all honesty most administrations probably would have done the same thing, particularly if the stats were supportive of their efforts. Remember when Bush claimed that Iraq had WMD? That statement was based on intelligence reports from the CIA, British Intelligence and even Russian Intelligence. When it turned out all the reports were wrong and Iraq did not have WMD, left-wingers began shouting that Bush had lied. But Bush did not lie. He made a mistake based on bad information that he had no reason to suspect but that is far from a deliberate distortion of the truth. This is a similar situation. Obama got bad information which he had no reason to suspect and because it seemed to support the idea that his stimulus was working, he jumped on it without checking it out. That was not a good thing to do, but it was not a lie. I always try to be fair in my criticisms - particularly of Democrats since I disagree with them so much. I ask myself, if a Republican had done or said the same thing, would I be criticising the Republican, and let that be my guide. I am not a big believer in the principle that if a Republican does something it is okay but if a Democrat does the same thing it is wrong. I also try to find out the facts first, particularly if I got the information through e-mails or the internet. Anyone who bases his criticisms on half-truths and complete fabrications will only see it to come back to haunt him, damage his credibility and will only end up looking foolish. So I really try hard to find the truth. We often accept something as true for no other reason that we want it to be true (i.e Obama not being born in the United States, Bush lying about WMD and Obama being a Muslum) despite all the evidence to the contrary. This is what I call willful ignorance and something that should be avoided at all costs. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for criticizing Obama. There is no reason to create any.
