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Patriot Act Renewal..

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Rex_B, Feb 7, 2011.

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SabanFan The voice of reason

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red55 said: ↑

The FBI was caught by the Justice Department after they abused a key Patriot Act power, known as a National Security Letter. That first reports showed that FBI agents were routinely sloppy in using the self-issued subpoenas and issued hundreds that claimed fake emergencies. LINK

With the flawed follow-up letters, the Counterterrorism division attempted to provide retroactive legal justification for telephone data the division had gotten on 3,860 phone numbers, gotten either through verbal requests to the companies or false emergency requests.The Director of the FBI ended up apologizing for it. LINK

Oh, and here is your example of Patriot Act breaking and entering a citizens home. From Wikipedia:

In May 2004, Professor Steve Kurtz of the University at Buffalo reported his wife's death of heart failure. The associate art professor, who works in the biotechnology sector, was using benign bacterial cultures and biological equipment in his work. Police arriving at the scene found the equipment (which had been displayed in museums and galleries throughout Europe and North America) suspicious and notified the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The next day the FBI, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Department of Homeland Security and numerous other law enforcement agencies arrived in HAZMAT gear and cordoned off the block surrounding Kurtz's house, impounding computers, manuscripts, books, and equipment, and detaining Kurtz without charge for 22 hours.

Although it was determined that nothing in the Kurtz's home posed any health or safety risk, the Justice Department sought charges under Section 175 of the US Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act—a law which was expanded by the USA PATRIOT Act. A grand jury rejected those charges, but Kurtz is still charged with federal criminal mail and wire fraud, and faced 20 years in jail before the charges were dropped. Supporters worldwide argue that this is a politically motivated prosecution, akin to those seen during the era of McCarthyism, and legal observers note that it is a precedent-setting case with far-reaching implications involving the criminalization of free speech and expression for artists, scientists, researchers, and others.
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Collateral damage. Sht happens.

SabanFan, Feb 8, 2011

#11
Rex_B Geaux Time

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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh:

House Fails to Extend Patriot Act Spy Powers | Threat Level | Wired.com

Rex_B, Feb 8, 2011

#12
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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SabanFan said: ↑

Collateral damage. Sht happens.
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"I might be against the Patriot Act if someone could show me one instance where the Feds barged into someone's house just because they could. " -- SbanFan

red55, Feb 9, 2011

#13
SabanFan The voice of reason

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red55 said: ↑

"I might be against the Patriot Act if someone could show me one instance where the Feds barged into someone's house just because they could. " -- SbanFan
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Don't see where that happened.

SabanFan, Feb 10, 2011

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Rex_B Geaux Time

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SF just wants to give up his 4th Amendment rights because the Big Govt he loves can make him safer. BLah!

Rex_B, Feb 10, 2011

#15
SabanFan The voice of reason

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Rex_B said: ↑

SF just wants to give up his 4th Amendment rights because the Big Govt he loves can make him safer. BLah!
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I don't want terrorists to have free reign just because a few liberal pricks worry about things they don't need to worry about.

SabanFan, Feb 10, 2011

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red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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SabanFan said: ↑

Don't see where that happened.
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That is exactly what happened.

red55, Feb 10, 2011

#17
gumborue Throwin Ched

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red55 said: ↑

The FBI was caught by the Justice Department after they abused a key Patriot Act power, known as a National Security Letter. That first reports showed that FBI agents were routinely sloppy in using the self-issued subpoenas and issued hundreds that claimed fake emergencies. LINK

With the flawed follow-up letters, the Counterterrorism division attempted to provide retroactive legal justification for telephone data the division had gotten on 3,860 phone numbers, gotten either through verbal requests to the companies or false emergency requests.The Director of the FBI ended up apologizing for it. LINK

Oh, and here is your example of Patriot Act breaking and entering a citizens home. From Wikipedia:

In May 2004, Professor Steve Kurtz of the University at Buffalo reported his wife's death of heart failure. The associate art professor, who works in the biotechnology sector, was using benign bacterial cultures and biological equipment in his work. Police arriving at the scene found the equipment (which had been displayed in museums and galleries throughout Europe and North America) suspicious and notified the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The next day the FBI, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Department of Homeland Security and numerous other law enforcement agencies arrived in HAZMAT gear and cordoned off the block surrounding Kurtz's house, impounding computers, manuscripts, books, and equipment, and detaining Kurtz without charge for 22 hours.

Although it was determined that nothing in the Kurtz's home posed any health or safety risk, the Justice Department sought charges under Section 175 of the US Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act—a law which was expanded by the USA PATRIOT Act. A grand jury rejected those charges, but Kurtz is still charged with federal criminal mail and wire fraud, and faced 20 years in jail before the charges were dropped. Supporters worldwide argue that this is a politically motivated prosecution, akin to those seen during the era of McCarthyism, and legal observers note that it is a precedent-setting case with far-reaching implications involving the criminalization of free speech and expression for artists, scientists, researchers, and others.
Click to expand...

the wife was found dead in the house. a paramedic saw weird biological dissemination equipment in the house and contacted the fbi (as local first responders are trained to do). they got a warrant to go in the house and check things out. both entering the house and detaining the guy is reasonable given that it takes days to figure out how she died and what organisms are in the dissemination devices.

this is one of, if not the, main ways that terrorists are caught. this happens all the time--be it explosives, or bacteria or ricin or rad materials.

gumborue, Feb 10, 2011

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red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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gumborue said: ↑

this is one of, if not the, main ways that terrorists are caught. this happens all the time--be it explosives, or bacteria or ricin or rad materials.
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Nonsense. A Grand Jury threw it all out. This is an example of how Patriot Act Powers were abused at the expense of a citizen.

red55, Feb 11, 2011

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gumborue Throwin Ched

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red55 said: ↑

Nonsense. A Grand Jury threw it all out. This is an example of how Patriot Act Powers were abused at the expense of a citizen.
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it is absolutely not non-sense. the case was dismissed because the guy was innocent. that has nothing to do with the rights of the gov to search. they had cause. without that cause, many terrorists would be caught to late.

gumborue, Feb 11, 2011

#20

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