he is not speaking of the physical cross. When a beleiver says they are saved through the cross they don't mean by the two peices of lumber, but by Christ allowing himself to be punished so all sin can be forgiven.
It is Jesus on the crucifix. A dead body nailed to a tree is still a corpse. Jesus just stopped being a corpse three days later. Of course then again I guess the crucifix could just show him hanging there while still alive suffering for all us sinners. I dunno.
right i knew it was jesus, dummy! i am wondering if the guy is a dead jesus or an alive jesus. i think it is supposed to be an alive jesus.
No. I am not required to do anything other than believe in Christ for my salvation, according to John 3:16 and Eph 2:8-9. Catholics, Jews, and Muslims are required to do many things. No argument here. Well he wrote Eph. 2:8-9 as well. Which verse is to be believed?
im not sure how you keep score in such threads but I think supa is kicking 157's ass just on clarity alone. oh and red, at shock value i think it was worth noting what the pope said because it is somewhat intriguing but I think supa is correct. Its not really much of anything when you read it in its context. more like just expressing his disbelief of how grave the situation really was.
Shhhhh! I'm trying to get him to admit that he gets his rules and justifications from the Bible, a "holy book", written by men and the basis of all western monotheist religion. Anyway he didn't say he was saved through the cross, he said he got his rules and justifications from it. I just want to know how.
no, I didn't say that. I said my justification is through the cross. I don't have any rules. Maybe you could make the argument that anything based on the Bible according to my above definition must be religion, but it would be a hard argument to back up since the New Testament clearly denounces all of the religious teachers at the time of Christ and emphasizes the heart change brought about from a rebirth in Christ at the cross.
