Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Swerved, Feb 11, 2013.
It's kind of like a seance....just kidding.
Not one of these is an objection to a church dogma.
The titles of priest and religious are of course not matters of dogma. They are honorific titles meant to show respect. And the apostles certainly did refer to themselves fathers in the same sense that priests are referred to as father. Paul referred to himself as the spiritual father of Timothy over twenty times. The quote you are taking out of context is in reference to placing things ahead of God.
First the rosary is not a dogma. It is a series of prayers that has been changed and modified numerous times over the centuries. Second, Mary is not deified. Every single thing Catholics believe is special about Mary is the result of a special grace granted by God.
Third, you again taking a biblical quote out of context. Jesus is not saying that repetition in and of itself is bad. Remember he prayed the same prayer three times in Gethsemane, and instructed his followers to pray the Our Father. He is talking muttering words with no commitment to the exercise of building the relationship with God.
Priestly celibacy is again, not a dogma. It is a discipline required of Latin rite priests. It is not required of all priests. Priests in many of the Eastern rite churches do marry. And again another verse taken out of context. The passage is not defining requirements for a bishop. It is describing the kinds of qualities bishops should exhibit, mainly that they are men of character. Remember Paul taught that elders (or in the Greek presbyters, the root of priest) should be celibate.
Yet you have failed to give even one.
That is weird it is almost as if the bible can be interpreted to mean whatever you want.
Seriously, Papal infallibility doesn't mean or imply that a pope is not capable of sin or of error. It means that he is protected from error when he "proclaims by a definitive act, a doctrine pertaining to faith and morals."
The definitive act refers to a proclamation from the office of the pope (together with the college of bishops as in an ecumenical council) about matters of faith and morals which represent a divinely revealed truth (like from Scripture).
On a lighter note....
how is it not like a seance? isnt that exactly what it is, talkin to the dead?
Da fuck is this lunatic babbling about
They're not really dead...they're more alive than we are.
It is difficult to understand because it uses a lot of theological concepts that people without faith or with little understanding of Scripture have trouble understanding. The caller was a Protestant and they do an unbelievably great job of teaching scripture and what it means to their people. I wish the Catholic Church did the same job. It's kind of like walking into a senior level physics class and not being able to understand.
What he's saying is that, according to Scripture, God revealed himself gradually to mankind...at first to individuals and gradually to an ever expanding group of people and eventually to the whole world...at first the Jews and then to everyone else. He establishes covenants with these ever expanding groups.
Treaties and contracts are exchanges of promises. "If you do this, I'll do that." Covenants, on the other hand are much deeper and intimate, they are exchanges of lives. When God makes a covenant, he's giving you His life. Christianity is about you giving your life to God and he, in turn, gives you His...and His is eternal life. That's what salvation is all about.
According to Scripture, Jesus (a person of God) founded Christianity by establishing His Church and put Peter in charge when he said, "You are Peter and upon this rock, I build MY Church." He then went on to say that "The gates of hell will never prevail against it."
This is a guarantee from God that the Church will never deviate from what God revealed through scripture...this is what the phrase "Faith and Morals" means. Infallibility only concerns the central tenets of Christianity and it is guaranteed because of the covenant relationship between God and his Church (Christianity) through Jesus. In fact, Scripture refers to the Church as a single body with the believers as parts of the Body and Christ as the Head. This intimate association exists as a covenantal relationship...the glue that holds the body together.
Therefore, If God can never lie about what He revealed, then Neither can any part of the body.
What Red and Supa were talking about is areas of "religion" outside of God's revelation. Things like priestly celebacy and forms of prayer are man made traditions. Popes are humans...and sometimes sinful humans, but they can not change what God Himself has revealed.
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