The Patriots were less effective running the ball in 2003 than we are this year, in every area, including 3rd and shorts, and they won the championship. I'm not saying we run the most ideal offense in the world by any means. But it has been said, several times, that it is impossible to win a championship without at least an average running game. That is simply not true. I have provided clear proof of that. About the defense, I agree we need an improvement and said so earlier. But it isn't like we don't have talented players. We just need need someone how can scheme well and actually use the talents that they have. I believe, and have been trying to demonstrate the entire time, that the only thing we need be a top level competitor is an average defesive cordinator. And thus, the only thing you can blame Payton for is his commitment to Gibbs. There is nothing wrong with offensive playcalling, nothing wrong with our scheme, and nothing wrong with our headcoach. Don't forget, we are 2 missed fieldgoals away from being 10-6 and in the playoffs. In addition, we are a few defensive miscues away from up to 14-2. I'm not trying to use this as an excuse, because all that really matters are wins and losses, but we put ourselves in place to be a top team. Had not been for a few big plays late in games, we could very well have a first round by this year. 6 of our 8 losses were by less than 6 points. We've been in a position to win. Our defense, mostly due to poor strategy, just hasn't been able to hold late in games. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think a head coach who puts his team in a position to win week in and week out deserves to be canned, as so many people seem to be hoping for.
we just have diametrically opposite views of Payton's talent. Where you see "a head coach who puts his team in a position to win week in and week out," I see a coach that goes out of his way to try and lose games. Game after game after game, i saw a coach that would call trick plays to get 3and1s, instead of using what he had available (namely Deuce.) Payton relied on too many tricks to get Bush the ball. I saw a coach that has no clue on challenging calls and using Timeouts effectively. I saw a coach that knows the defense needs help, yet he drafts Robert Meachem and trades for Shockey. I do give him credit for some good Defensive pickups this year - Vilma especially. Yes the offense had crazy good numbers in terms of scoring and passing, but we are still an 8-8 team because as a coach he failed to adapt and correct the problems that the team has. Brees has awesome numbers because he was forced to. Otherwise we would be with Detroit at the bottom of the barrel.
I agree we definatly see things different, so there's no real use in debating this anymore, because we are both going to stick with our own observations. But, personally, I saw Payton not pound the ball up the middle on 3rd and one because we got no push early in the year and failed most of the time. I just see the offensive line get blown up on these plays everytime, so Payton changed his playcalling accordingly. I do agree with the challenges though. He's a bit overenthusiatic to use them.
oh by the way, welcome to the boards. My one big problem about the weak Oline pushes is that Deuce has a better chance to get the first even with a weak Oline. Reggie does not. Hell once Peirre started getting some real playtime even Pierre was getting positive yardage on short yard downs, so it can happen. I just this that Payton's love affair with Reggie is a negative to the team. The excuse that Deuce was hurt does not fly because he would get some playcalls later in most of those games.
Neither team ran the ball very effectively. The Patriots had 5 more first downs than the Giants and the TOP was almost dead even. If I remember correctly, New England had the game in hand, mostly due to the pass, and the Giants came back because the Giants D stepped up and Brady's offensive line disappeared. It was the Giants D that got 5 sacks on Brady who only got sacked a few times during the regular season along with an amazing, once in a lifetime pass and catch that kept a drive alive to win the game. So even without a running game, the Pats were very effective and capable of winning the Superbowl, but they are an exception and not a rule. This just adds to the point that there MUST be a defense to win the Super Bowl.
sean payton is not the reason why that offense is explosive, Drew Brees is. Sean Payton is the reason reggie bush would be your starting tailback if he were healthy. Sean Payton is the reason that on 3rd and 1 the saints will try a double reverse. Sean Payton is the reason Deuce was never in the game in short yardage situations, and the best running back on the team Pierre Thomas wasnt a starter until Bush went down. Sean Payton will be the reason the saints will never do anything. I seem to recall that Jim Haslett won a playoff game too. So just because Payton was the coach when the Saints 10-6 got a first round bye and won 1 playoff game does not make him untouchable. They air the ball out way too much which takes no time off the clock which leaves the defense on the field way too much. Plus how many players gained 100 plus yards on the saints defense this year? 2 Deangelo Williams in the last game, and LaDanian Tomlinson in england. Fire Sean Payton and get Mike Shanahan.
Last time I checked, Payton was responsible for bringing Brees to New Orleans. Let me just add that it takes more than just a good QB to make an offense explosive. It's ridiculous to imply that Drew Brees is the sole reason the Saints have an explosive offense. Payton isn't afraid to take chances and I love that about him.
We should all sign a petition demanding that Les Miles stop being "cutsie-wootsie" with all of these fake field goals, fake punts, and trick plays on 4th down!
Sean Payton is the brains behind the offense. The offense was number 1 in the league by a wide margin. They led the league in yards and points. It doesn't matter if those yards and points come from the passing game or the running game. Deuce was hurt this year that is why he didn't play not because of Sean Payton. You people are raging idiots.
