I think you are confusing the evolution of species with the origin of life. They are two very different things.
no i get it. i have been referring to both because both are relevant here. but somehow i dont think when anyone refers to "evolution" as a sociopolitical issue they are worried about the ongoing evolution of humans.
Quote: Originally Posted by flabengal How in the hell does interstellar dust organize itself to start "living" unless some outside agent acts upon it. Red: Magic? Look, a Supreme Being would'nt need to use "magic". All he would need to do it "will" it and it would take place. There is no philosophical problem with the idea that if there is a Supreme Being he could act on the material world. What I am saying is that I think there is a material world and a world of immaterial beings and there is an interaction. Your use of the term "magic" here seems like an attempt to discredit a very simple and valid idea. A Creator could act on his creation. This is in no way illogical. I was under the impression that one of the main cases an atheist makes is that the material world is sufficient in itself as proposed in the theory of evolution to explain the universe, etc. Without a Supreme Being to 'guide' it, my point is only that this would require non-living material to produce life, at some point. This seems implausible to me as I am not aware of this ever happening. Life is always started from an existing lifeform. Is this incorrect? Seriously, I am assuming we are allowed to suppose that there may be a Supreme Being. I wasn't assuming this is not allowed.
martin: Quote: Originally Posted by flabengal Also, I am in no way embarassed. I have nothing to be ashamed of martin. I thought this was Free Speech Alley? What part of Free Speech did you not understand?
Red: This is one of the main things I found when I looked into the subject in college. The incomplete fossils have to be "filled out" by someone and there seemed to be a lot of controversy regarding how accurate they were. I'm going off memory here and yes, I will look it up if required but aren't there several example of the archaeologist admitting later that they "juiced" up of their findings to generate more interest, media splash or however you want to phrase it. -Point being....no complete transitional fossils have been found so there is a level of interpretation required which allows for some honest mistakes or corruption as the case may be.
Gumborue: God certainly could have caused evolution to happen if he wanted. I just don't think he did, based on the theory of evolution and the evidence that should exist supporting it. And about the water to wine....if there is a God water to wine would defy physics but he is allowed to defy the rules of physics since he is above them. I haven't found any philosophers who say that God can't perform miracles.....that doesn't make any sense.
Red: I can't believe this is really accurate. You are the scientist here so you know better than me but there must be a way test the "intelligent design" theories......not directly testing for God or something stupid but if there are only two major players on the scene-Evolution vs. Creationism then evidence on the age of the universe, or the earth's magnetic field or the ability of mind to influence matter...these types of experiments must have taken place to some degree. I mean the scientists in favor of creationism must have done something in the last 20 years.
Red: Dunning- I think this guy is pulling a fast one or maybe you are: (jk) .......when you say organism, doens't that mean a living thing? I mean, a rock is not an organism. If the earth in the beginning was devoid of life then isn't it impossible for life to all of sudden "spark" up from non-living material? It sounds to me like he is assuming that organisms existed in the primodial goo. If not then the primordial goo would remain so. Where is the outside agent in this open system? And cards don't shuffle themselves....an outside agent has to be involved. That is what I am saying, an outside, immaterial agent has acted upon the physical world we see and caused life to take place. The process is always from the superior to the inferior, top to down, parent to child..... (reading the abiogenesis now...bbl)
