So can we put the "talent" conversation to rest

Of course not, LSU wasn't winning like we are today.

Winning at high levels brings in dollars, dollars bring in new facilaties, stadium expansions & mass media coverage.Those things ultimately lead to Top 5 recruiting classes, which enables more winning.

Here's an indicator.

LSU had great talent in the late 90s. Dinardo was a top notch recruiter, best since Chollie Mac at LSU. But he wasn't a great coach. He was a good coach, but he failed in staff management. It killed him. Sure, he 'brought the magic back', but it was short lived.

And that's the thing...continuity. Success breeds success. Saban had talent when he got here, and knew what to do with it. He was a ruthless staff manager, too. Miles inherited talent when he got here, and has kept it going with solid coaching and staff management. He might be a little slow to pull the trigger on staff changes, but he damn sure corrects mistakes, and he's about to do it again, FWIW.

Hugh Freeze and Ole Miss. Let's see what happens here. He's got something going on at Ole Miss, but lets see what he does with it. He's got some serious players, but can he coach em up? Can he assemble a staff and manage it? We'll see. Lots of coaches get on a hot streak, but unless they know WTF they're doing, it fizzles out pretty quick.

Miles has been solid and in fact elite for nearly a decade at LSU. The day he leaves will be a bad day in Tiger Nation.

Some of you guys let your hatred and agenda get in the way of clear thinking because your mind is soooooo cloudy. How many other schools had 90K crowds back then. How many programs would love to be join our position today?

I just can't get over the fact that so many LSU fans choose to be so derisive instead of basking in the successes we've had.

No one ever said LSU had more talent than Bama. Under Saban/Miles, LSU has recruited at the highest level, if not on par with Bama right there. So we have had more talent than most teams we've played and we're still in the top 10. Pretty dang good with unpredictable recruits. Is Miles popularity cooling with recruits? Maybe considering the beating he has taken nationally, most recently following the Clemson game. If Miles stops recruiting as well and we lower our expectations because its not fair to expect him to do as well with lesser recruits, what exactly are you arguing? That LSU should accept that we're not deserving of competing at the highest level and that finishing second is close enough? I expect Miles to compete neck and neck with Saban or whoever else happens to be at the top of the heap. I expect Miles to have us on the top of the heap, with the likes of Saban competing with us.

Holy hell, let's send out the white flag.

So we are talking about "today". Btw, when I said "common" I meant "common" as in "shared alike" "two or more" as in CFB.

If you think seating expansions are predicated on winning, explain why we went to 90K seats in 2000 coming off of 3 and 4 win seasons. Before that the 80's saw an increase to 80K.

Just for anyone who may not know, when the stadium opened in 1924, the seating capacity was 12,000. In 1931, 10,000 seats were added then 24, 000 more in 1936. In '53 we went to 67,000 then 78K in '78.

In showing how "common" 10 win seasons are in college football it's certainly fair game to list any team in the Bowl Subdivision that had one.

But Bama won 13 games- 3 more than us, PLUS "us" AND a National Championship. I don't think Bama is even in this conversation.

EXACTLY my point. You're such a great "fan" you missed the fact that our stadium DID NOT seat that many.

Go back and read so you can frame that comment. I was using that to say we're not in the pre-cell phone era, not as a criticism.

Agree, very sad. Luckily, it's mostly a small but vocal message board crowd. Some get themselves so worked up into a frenzy on TOS Rant, they don't or can't even think for themselves anymore.

Damn. Now that is impressive.

Bullchit. For the past 8 years, LSU has been said to have more talent than anyone they played, mostly from LSU fans, but also constantly repeated on TV broadcasts. During that time and even preceding that time, LSU has only landed a couple of #1 classes. (Only...did I just say that?) UF, more recently Bama, USC, several schools have done equally as well, or according to the services, even better. But talent is not used to describe why they win like it is for LSU.

LSU wins because it is a talent laden team year in and year out, with solid coaching leading the team.

And regarding the talent, not really getting the point of the thread. Is it being suggested that this isn't a great class? Because this is the sickest class I've seen in my life as an LSU fan.

Haha, but you know what he meant, and it's quite impressive.