Sooo.

Discussion in 'The Tiger's Den' started by LSUpride123, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. islstl

    islstl Playoff committee is a group of great football men Staff Member

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    Very nice skirting there. "Amigo".
     
  2. Brian

    Brian Founding Member

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    I'm not a Welter badger (heh), but he reminds me of Keith Brooking for the Falcons and GT.. homegrown guy with good stats, but he always made his tackles at the Mike downfIeld two plus yards not at the line or in the backfield and he jumped on piles and gang tackles which inflated his stats. Falcons fans loathed his stat line because it was NOT indicative of his play. He was not a playmaker. Heady guy, sure, but you didn't see him make plays. Welter reminds me of the guy who is in there cause he's reliable and you would love to replace him with better talent.

    The fact he hasn't been supplanted speaks as much to how undiscIplined the player's at the MLB position are behind him than anything cause we all know Beckwith is on another planet from him physically.. imo Chief wants us in the right defense and paying responsibly at that crucial spot than he does a physical freak. Anthony Johnson proved athleticism only goes so far. I'm sure Chief sees what we see. The bottom live is we don't see what he does which is which mike lines us up best and makes the right checks most. Three mental game is huge why do you think the Colts abd Saints and Pats win so often? Has left had physically more athletic teams than Payton has had in NOLA. Who had the better record?

    Saban learned his lesson when he chose the physical freak Daunte Culpepper over the heady Drew Brees..

    Remember until then Saban went with athletes at qb such as Tony Banks, JaMarcus over Flynn, Marcus Randall, Booty over Rohan, until the injury Mauck was more athlete than game manager. .

    Now?

    McElroy, AJ over the athletic Star Jackson, etc. . He's changed his philosophy.

    Mental acuity in football is huge.

    When you bash Welter realize there's a reason he's on the field and we need Beckwith to step it up and make it a no brainer to play him over DJ..
     
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  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Skirting how? The challenge stands. I'd like to know the plays that Welter whiffed on. Every player has a few, Kwon whiffed a couple of big plays badly. I don't think Welter is the sole weak point on defense. Honestly.

    I realize that Welter is not an All-American. But he's playing solid football out there, he contributes, he is not afraid of the ball carrier, and he is not the liability that you suggest. If he is, then pony up the proof.
     
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    It is the tackles that are supposed to stop runners at the line, or at least tie up blockers so that the linebackers can make the tackle, which is usually a couple of yards downfield. A linebacker that makes every play at the line of scrimmage is the linebacker that is going to bite on the fake and get beaten outside or on the screen or the short pass. A prudent linebacker must balance aggressiveness with playing his reads.
     
  5. Brian

    Brian Founding Member

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    I understand your point Red except what I'm saying is he's often either waiting instead of aggressively making the play or he's piling on rather than making solo stops.. he's not a playmaker. Quality linebackers have the ability and football instincts to take the proper angles and come up to make the play.

    Welter makes stops. He doesn't make plays. Just my opinion.

    I'm in agreement with you he's a solid player. Unfortunately our terrible DTs play highlights the need for a playmaker at the Mike.

    If he had a Dorsey or Lavalais or Booger or Kyle Williams in front of him we'd be fine.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Well, I think he is doing what he has been coached to do. You don't get tackle credits for "piling on". Assisted tackles are important.

    I understand that Welter is not Dick Butkis, but we don't have a Dick Butkis. Beckwith did not set the world on fire when he came in. One assist. Both of these guys will see playing time.

    Uhhh, OK.
     
  7. GregLSU

    GregLSU LSUFANS.com

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    So what's happening with Clifton Garrett... wasn't he supposed to be a pretty freaky LB'er?
     
  8. Brian

    Brian Founding Member

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    I agree with what you said. I think Welter is executing Ay a higher level than any other guy in guys spot the problem is we need more from the Mike than what anyone has been able to provide ..

    There's a difference between making a stop and making a play. Surely you recognize this. An example? Form tackle at the twenty with a powerful hit that lets the offensive player know he's in for a fight versus being run over at the twenty and that causing the offensive player to be downed.

    Same result ostensibly. Very different methods.
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    And two very different techniques. The MLB that aggressively charges the line on every play will be unable to react to an inside fake or play-action and get outside or back into pass coverage. He must take an instant to read the play and make the move to wherever the ball appears. If that means dragging a back down instead of knocking him back, then it's an easy choice for the DC. A linebacker that goes for the big hit and leaves his man wide open for a pass is going to sit on the bench until he learns better. A tackle is a tackle, amigo. Chief will allow 3 yards when it helps prevent a big play. In a short-yardage situation, you bring in the Big Hitter sometimes. Otherwise you go with the Smart Hitter.
     
  10. Brian

    Brian Founding Member

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    Uh, sure if every player is physically and athletically equal and their instincts are also the same... however, this is not the case. Welter is going to perform technically sound but at an inferior level compared to another player who plays with the same precision yet is athletically or at an instinctually superior level, especially if he is both..

    DJ is a decent player and he is adequate for most teams. He's a substandard MLB though in very few programs one of which is LSU due to the standard of players we attract and field.

    Wisconsin has a pretty good defense when healthy with a cast of DJ Welter's.. problem is when those talented bigs up front aren't there making plays you see what happens. Kenny Hilliard doesn't get touched and runs roughshod all over your technically sound but athletically pedestrian second level of defense.

    You even proved my point when you indicated Kwon was out of position quite a bit when we got gashed. Wisconsin's guys played responsibly all game, but when you don't have quality DL in front you're gonna suffer with just decent technicians at linebacker. We don't right now have quality DL against the run and being undisciplined as well as having DJ at the mike hurt us.

    I'm not bashing Welter. I'm proud of him. He's a good representative for LSU. Plays the right way and gives it his heart on every play.. just being realistic about his shortcomings. It's okay to critique him just as you did Kwon.. no?
     

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