Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by islstl, Aug 5, 2004.
The truth is that not one of those guys served on the same boat as Kerry.
Smax, this guy has no credibility.
True, but they did serve with him. Some above him and others were the commanders of the other boats. From my understanding the swift boats travel in groups. Kerry made this an issue, not them.
I can't wait until September when moveon.org, swiftboat.com, the unions, and the rest are out of this race. All they do is spread propoganda whether true or not.
Just imagine.........if only G.W. was an LSU cheerleader instead of Yale, what a bummer. He would have had much better values and morals. man.....
2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits a dollar, all for Georgie W. Stand up and Bomb it!
Saddam! Saddam! S-A-D-D-A-M
I'll take a war hero over a cheerleader to be my commander in chief.
This is what happens when you come back from Vietnam and smear the hell out of others who served, only to make your service the centerpiece of your presidential campaign 35 years later. I've heard NV in radio interviews say that this kind of thing gave them hope, and they laud John Kerry to this day. He must have been proud when Saigon fell and hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese were slaughtered. It all may come back to bite him in the ass.
These guys had plenty of contact with Kerry. I'm hearing people act as though they were in completely different areas. They worked pretty closely with him and if he wants to use the opinion of veterans to promote himself, so be it. It was he who used the picture of him with these officers in an ad. You reap what you sow.
Only John Kerry (and John McCain) are allowed to talk about Vietnam. Everyone else is "dishonorable".
First of all, Crawfish, I've found a book I think you might be interested in reading. It looks like it's written on your level. Just wanted to pass it along and help you in your fight against the evil George Bush.
The following contains the story of how Kerry received his first Purple Heart as told in "Unfit for Command". I'm not going to say it's true, I'm not saying it's false. It is there for you to decide. If you respect that Kerry is a Vet and listen to what he says, these guys at least deserve the same consideration, they are Vets also, I don't think anyone is disputing that.
Said Kerry in "Tour of Duty":
My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.
O'Neill and Corsi, however, claim there is no evidence whatsoever Kerry took any enemy fire that night.
Patrick Runyon was operating the engine on the Boston whaler during the incident.
"I can't say for sure that we got return fire or how [Kerry] got nicked," Runyon is quoted as saying in "Unfit for Command." "I couldn't say one way or the other. I know he did get nicked, a scrape on the arm."
Wrote O'Neill: "In a separate conversation, Runyon related that he never knew Kerry was wounded. So even in the [Boston] Globe biography accounting, it was not clear that there was any enemy fire, just a question about how Kerry might have been hit with shrapnel."
The Boston Globe, the authors note, asked the Kerry campaign for information about enemy fire, but was provided only written statement saying the Navy thought the incident deserved a Purple Heart.
According to the blockbuster book, "After Kerry's M-16 jammed, Kerry picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade too close, causing a tiny piece of shrapnel (one to two centimeters) to barely stick in his arm. [Lt. William] Schachte berated Kerry for almost putting someone's eye out. There was no hostile fire of any kind, nor did Kerry on the way back mention to PCF OinC Mike Voss, who commanded the PCF that had towed the skimmer, that he was wounded. There was no report of any hostile fire that day (as would be required), nor do the records at Cam Ranh Bay reveal any such hostile fire. No other records reflect any hostile fire. There is also no casualty report, as would have been required had there actually been a casualty."
As WorldNetDaily has reported, the piece of shrapnel was removed from Kerry's arm and a Band-Aid was put on the wound.
O'Neill interviewed Cmdr. Grant Hibbard, with whom Kerry initially applied for the Purple Heart:
Q: When did you first meet John Kerry?
GH: Kerry reported to my division in November 1968. I didn't know him from Adam.
Q: Can you describe the mission in which Kerry got his first Purple Heart?
GH: Kerry requested permission to go on a skimmer operation with Lieutenant Schachte, my most senior and trusted lieutenant, using a Boston whaler to try to interdict a Viet Cong movement of arms and munitions. The next morning at the briefing, I was informed that no enemy fire had been received on that mission. Our units had fired on some VC units running on the beach. We were all in my office, some of the crew members, I remember Schachte being there.
This was 36 years ago; it really didn't seem all that important at the time. Here was this lieutenant, junior grade, who was saying "I got wounded," and everybody else, the crew that were present were saying, "We didn't get any fire. We don't know how he got the scratch." Kerry showed me the scratch on his arm. I hadn't been informed that he had any medical treatment. The scratch didn't look like much to me; I've seen worse injuries from a rose thorn.
Q: Did Kerry want you to recommend him for a Purple Heart?
GH: Yes, that was his whole point. He had this little piece of shrapnel in his hand. It was tiny. I was told later that Kerry had fired an M-79 grenade and that he had misjudged it. He fired it too close to the shore, and it exploded on a rock or something. He got hit by a piece of shrapnel from a grenade that he had fired himself. The injury was self-inflicted, that's what made sense to me. I told Kerry to "forget it." There was no hostile fire, the injury was self-inflicted for all I knew, besides it was nothing really more than a scratch. Kerry wasn't getting any Purple Heart recommendation from me.
Q: How did Kerry get a Purple Heart from the incident then?
GH: I don't know. It beats me. I know I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself, that's all I can figure out. If it ever came across my desk, I don't have any recollection of it. Kerry didn't get my signature. I said "no way" and told him to get out of my office.
Concludes O'Neill: "Amazingly, Kerry somehow 'gamed the system' nearly three months later to obtain the Purple Heart that Hibbard had denied. How he obtained the award is unknown, since his refusal to execute Standard Form 180 means that whatever documents exist are known only to Kerry, the Department of Defense and God. It is clear that there should be numerous other documents, but only a treatment record reflecting a scratch and a certificate signed three months later have been produced."
"Unfit for Command" mentions how most military personnel view the Purple Heart as an honor fit only for those more severely injured. It quotes veteran Gary Townsend, who said, "I … turned down a Purple Heart award (which required seven stitches) offered to me while in Nam because I thought a little cut was insignificant as to what others had suffered to get theirs."
"To cheat by getting a Purple Heart from a self-inflicted wound would be regarded as befitting the lowest levels of military conduct," write the authors of "Unfit for Command." "To use such a faked award to leave a combat sector early would be lower yet. Finally, to make or use faked awards as the basis for running for president of the United States, while faulting one's political opponents for not having similar military decorations, would represent unbelievable hypocrisy and the truly bottom rung of human conduct. Anyone engaging in such conduct would be unfit for even the lowest rank in the Navy, to say nothing of the commander in chief."
Marcmc, I've got some land in Plaquemine Parish, I like to sell you. Beachfront property--cheap.
Trust me. :grin: