Mike, you have presented nothing new, nothing that hasn't been presented by some previous crackpot, and you have even admitted that FDR warned all his military commanders to be prepared for imminent war which might break out at any minute. Haven't you realized that that admission by itself finishes off all of your argument? FDR opposed Japan's military aggression. Since he opposed it, Japan thought they had to attack us. The alternative to that would have been complete capitulation by America to Japan's military expansion. You confuse that with FDR "provoking" Japan to attack us. You are apparently a complete advocate of appeasement, and a marshmellow on foreign policy. Mike, we did NOT go to war because we were prejudiced against the Japanese. We went to war because they attacked us.
I re-read your original post. I notice there is nothing to indicate that it was true, just some "memo" and speculation about what Edward R. Murrow heard. Anyway what it mostly is is a plan to oppose Japanese expansion with all steps SHORT of going to war. No one disputes that FDR opposed Japanese invasions of countries. Folks, welcome to the world of the conspiracy nut, where there is always some "blockblster" story that somehow did not get out, where someone died mysteriously on the way to tell some great secret, where every rumor is assumed to be fact, and anything can be believed but the truth, which is always assumed to be false, no matter how many people swear to it and how much the facts back it up. FDR opposed Japanese expansion. To do anything else would have been betraying every ideal America was founded on. Not to oppose Japanese expansion would have been a betrayal of the Chinese, the Manchurians, the Koreans, and the people of Southeast Asia. But Mike and his crackpot author take every step FDR took short of going to war, and turn that into some conspiracy that makes it look like America was the aggressor against Japan instead of the other way around.
Just in case anyone is wondering, which I doubt, I believe that the only options were using the atom bombs or invading Japan, which would have made the invasion of Germany look like a cakewalk. Dropping atom bombs on cities is a horrible thing, but here it probably saved many lives and was probably justified.
this is so incredibly stupid i didnt read it ,,, just went straight to the post. I just read the title, it doesnt deserve the respect of reading further, it's like saying the earth is really flat :dis: You'd have to be really really SLOW to buy into this. but then again some folks still think there is a shooter on the grassy knoll who saw Elvis......... anything to sell a book Do you ever wonder if the authors are laughing at the innocent folks that buy into their BS? I mean maybe they made it all up to make a buck? could be laughing all the way to the bank. It wouldnt be the first time Lies made it to print. don't belive me? check out some of CB's posts. Mike back out slowly son your a victim of a well written book of lies.
At least V4H has the common sense and open mindedness to get the books, read them and then make up his mind for himself. Too bad that can't be said for the rest of you simple minded drones.
Mike, speaking for myself, I have heard it all before. You have presented nothing that could change the mind of anyone who has previously looked at the facts and the real situation as it existed in 1941. Again, what you are doing is presenting the actions that FDR took to oppose Japan's expansionist policies without going to war, and turning them into provocative actions that "forced" Japan to attack America. I guess FDR should have kept supplying Japan with fuel oil to run their warships, tanks, trucks and the rest of their war machine. I guess that would not be seen as provocative toward Japan even by you and your friend. The options FDR was faced with were between taking steps to oppose Japan or complete appeasement. Appeasement would have been disgraceful. You are taking the view that every convenience store that gets robbed has only itself to blame because they are placed in localities that "tempt" the armed robber. That is the same position your author is taking.
Like my mother said,---. In fact we DID continue supplying oil and other goods to Japan before McCollums plans were adopted under a sham "licensing "plan put forth by FDR. This is also addressed in the book but I wouldn't expect you to know this or make the effort to read the book and find out for yourself. I'll tell you something else that I know you'll react to in the same way. The Japanese learned most of their cruelty, especially towards pow's, from the west. But of course that's a crock too, just like the Indians learned scalping from the British. Why don't you open up your little mind, get on your little bicycle and go down to the bookstore (or library if you don't have any money) get the books and read them before you dismiss them out of hand. If you don't want to do that, then send me 3 90 minute tapes and return postage and I will make you an audio copy of it. Please, it's one thing to have knowledge of something and then dismiss it but to do so out of hand without even reading one word shows your total ignorance and lack of tolerance for opinions other than yours. If you can't do that, then please refrain from the name calling and innuendos. Erich von Daniken was a crackpot. But then again you may be one of those who believed him. I happen to think these people are in a far different league.
So we went to war with the Japanese because we were prejudiced against them? Mike, that is ridiculous. We went to war because they attacked us after we opposed their policies of taking any country they wanted. What have you presented that is so earth-shaking? Nothing that I can see.
I like a good conspiracy every now and then, that doesn't mean that I'll believe it. I just want to check it out.
Putting the American fleet's main base in the Hawaiian Islands was a realistic response to aggressive moves by Japan in the Far East and potentially against the Phillippines. Since Japan invaded the Phillippines in 1942, it seems justified. In the months before the Pearl Harbor attack, huge amounts of oil had been hauled to Pearl Harbor, along with other supplies. Another little known fact about the attack is that somehow the Japanese did not blow up the tanks holding the fuel--a collossal blunder. If they had, the US Navy may have had to relocate to the West Coast from Hawaii from necessity. The memo is just that, a memo. It does not mean it was put into effect. Did you know that a plan surfaced recently in which the Pentagon was looking at making chemical attacks against Americans in Florida, and blaming it on Castro to justify invading Cuba in the sixties? It was never carried out, but the written plan did exist.
