Trump Tax Cuts & Tariffs

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Tiger in NC, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC It's Been Long Enough

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    Trump's tax cuts missed the middle class altogether and went, almost exclusively, to the most wealthy of individuals and corporations. In truth, the first year the middle class saw some tax relief albeit minimal. But those have diminished over the past year and the middle class now has nothing to show for it. The tax cuts were supposed to be revenue neutral but they have not been. The deficit under Trump has exploded because of his tax cuts, ballooning to over a trillion dollars a year after inheriting a deficit of roughly half that from Obama. What happened? The tax cuts served one purpose and that was to temporarily goose the economy like a sugar high for a child. The bad part is that the economy didn't need it.

    Second, Trump's tariffs have amounted to little more than a tax increase on the middle and lower class. His insistence that China is paying for the tariffs is complete and utter bull shit and everyone with any sense knows. His tariffs just mean that American consumers pay more for products from China. To the tune of 60 billion just this year! Let that sink in for a second....his tax cuts were directed at the rich and his tariffs amount to a tax increase on everyone else. Further, the deficit is exploding even with this additional tax revenue that the tariffs are collecting from hard working Americans.

    Both of these blow a hole in any idea that the Republican party is fiscally conservative. It's not and it never has been. Republicans have created their own realities under this President and in doing so have forfeited their credibility or moral standing when it comes to economic stewardship. What happened to the Tea party? That was 2010 and already you guys have abandoned it and any idea of balancing the federal budget. I was looking back over some old threads the other day from 2010 and I wish I had the time to quote some of you guys from back then. It's downright comical.

    Lastly, and as usual, Trump cannot accept responsibility for anything that he does and persistently wants to blame all of his troubles on the media or on a previous administration or, hell, even someone in his own cabinet. Regardless of who sits in the WH, accountability is a hallmark of leadership. I'm sure you guys will say that I have TDS or some other cutsy label to describe my distaste for his policies. Say what you want, his erratic behavior has to be concerning to anyone with a stake in this economy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  2. Kikicaca

    Kikicaca Senior Member

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    Looks like you started point/counter point without a counter point.

    Kilmer-Tombstone.jpg

    "I am here huckleberry that's just my game"

    So do you agree with Obama that America needs to be "fundamentally changed"?
     
  3. Winston1

    Winston1 Veteran Member

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    Glad you’re back @Tiger in NC it’s good to hear some other opposition to the Trumpster. He has been worse than I feared.
    However as usual you go over the top on conclusions and criticisms. Specifically I talking about your comment that republicans have never been fiscally conservative or concerned about deficits. It may be accurate today but only recently. In fact the impetus and significant input for the surplus seen under Clinton and W Bush were from Republicans. Bush 41’s tax increase and budget established the basis for the expansion. Then the Republicans in Congress drug Clinton kicking and screaming to the budget deal that gave the surplus.
    Likewise it was Republican fed bank governors who set the financial stability and environment for this to happen.
    I hope what has happened since the W Bush years is an aberration but I fear it isn’t. Unfortunately it seems power and the need to counter the opposition rather than the what is best for the country now and into the future has become the reason de terre for the Republicans as it has been for Democrats for so long.
     
  4. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC It's Been Long Enough

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    thank you Winston....it's good to be back for a while

    There is good evidence to the contrary. Reagan inherited a 74 billion dollar deficit from Carter and left a deficit of 155 billion to Bush Sr. Bush Sr. took it up to 290 billion in his four years. Clinton took the deficit from 290 billion to a surplus of 236 billion when he left office in early 2001. Bush Jr. took that 236 billion dollar surplus and left Obama with a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit. When Obama left office the deficit was 585 billion, still far too much but trending in the right direction. Trump took that and has, in 2 years, turned it into a 1.1 trillion dollar deficit.

    I don't want to be disingenuous here and claim that their haven't been other mitigating factors along the way that have contributed to both the ups and downs of the deficit but it is hard to take a look at those numbers and not see that under Reagan, both Bushes and Trump the deficit has exploded while it has decreased under Obama and Clinton.
    I don't know, since the Bush years you had the Tea Party uprising of 2010 and many of those same Republican politicians that swept into congress during that election cycle and obstructed every initiative that Obama wanted in the name of fiscal responsibility are the same one's turning a blind eye to Trump's fiscal irresponsibility while others seem to be wholly on board with it.

    If this were true then why would we see deficits going down under Clinton and Obama? You talk like Democrats are these wild spenders but spending explodes under Republican presidents, not Democrats. This isn't my opinion, these are facts. As I said before, I would be intellectually dishonenst not to point out that there have been other mitigating factors along the way such as the tech boom of the nineties and the attacks of 9/11 but by and large the numbers do not lie.
     
  5. Winston1

    Winston1 Veteran Member

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    Funny you say you don’t want to be intellectually dishonest but that’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re ignoring the base data for democrat generated disinformation. Besides the very salient points that show the Republicans responsible for deficit reduction you also painted a false picture of the cause of the deficit increase under Reagan. He had a deal with Tip O’Neil to cut spending that O’Neil violated immediately by passing spending bills in great excess of the deal. The Democrats has an almost veto proof majority.
    On a state and local level the Democrats are leading more places into bankruptcy...actions followed by their national partners.
    The Republicans are falling into the spendthrift mode and that’s more than troubling. I fear for our children and grandchildren’s future.
     
  6. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 Boobies make everything A OK!!!

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    Can you cite the data please?

    Thanks!
     
  7. Kikicaca

    Kikicaca Senior Member

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    You are forgetting Clinton had a Newt Gingrich controled house who kept Slick Willie's spending in check except they failed at keeping him from assulting many women, Hillary took care of covering for that.
     
  8. HalloweenRun

    HalloweenRun I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter!

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  9. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC It's Been Long Enough

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    How so?

    huh? what does this mean?

    How so? The Reagan tax cuts and increased military spending were the primary drivers of higher deficits under Reagan.

    Just as Clinton had to deal with Gingrich and Obama had to deal with Boehner. Further, these spending bills you are referring to....did Reagan sign those bills into law? Because last time I checked a budget deal had to be signed by the President too.

    almost only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades

    I can point to at least as many places where complete Repoublican control has done the same, like Kansas and Louisiana when Jindal was governor.

    Agreed.
     
  10. Tiger in NC

    Tiger in NC It's Been Long Enough

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    Gingrich deserves his due credit for the work he did with Clinton during the 90's. Gingrich is a very smart guy and I've always respected him even when I don't like him. That said, every piece of that legislation had to be signed by the slickster too. Compromise. It was called compromise and it's not a bad word; some of our current politicians could use a good lesson on it.
     
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