Video for You Lovers of Tax and Big Govenment

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Bengal B, Jul 12, 2014.

  1. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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  2. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    Who said anyone loves taxes or big government. I like low taxes, I just think that those who reap the benefits of this country the most should be taxed at a higher percentage and that those people should not be able to hide money off shore in havens to avoid it. If these people were actually job creators, then why, during a period where their taxes have been lower than ever are there less jobs and higher unemployment? Oh because it's the government's fault right? Well in a way you are correct because since your god Reagan took over regulations have dwindled and been eroded (by democrats too) and loopholes have been written in that do not help your average taxpayer. Now the wealth gap is higher than it has ever been, the middle class is being ass raped, and the rich are reaping way more benefits than these "scary freeloading lazy do nothing's that sit at home get high and collect a check".

    By the way sheep, your herder is calling you back to the flock.
     
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  3. gyver

    gyver Rely on yourself not on others.

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    Well you and red better get on back then. Don't won't y'all ending up lambchops.
     
  4. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    Answer the question, how come there are fewer jobs and unemployment was higher during a period when the uber rich or so called "job creators" benefitted from their lowest payouts in decades?

    It's because they aren't job creators. They are greedy hoarders.
     
  5. gyver

    gyver Rely on yourself not on others.

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    Government doesn't create jobs either. More people are on unemployment and welfare now than have ever been.
    Companies are out to make a profit. Politicians are out to make a profit, aka re-election.
     
  6. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Who pulled the wool over your eyes? I didn't mention you in the thread title but you came rising to the bait like a big old sheepshead. You have made corporations and ultra wealthy people your personal boogieman. How does it affect your life that there are some people who have vastly more money than you do? I know you have the discretionary income to buy marijuana. You must have a job. Do you and your family have a roof over your heads? Is there enough food on the table. Do you wear decent clothes? Do you and your wife drive decent vehicles or old beaters? I'm willing to bet that you have cable or satellite TV and that your television is a much later model than a 1977 Sylvania. You have plenty of free time to post and surf the internet. So much free time, in fact that you have been able to become a connoisseur of fine whines.

    If every big corporation and every billionaire suddenly had their taxes doubled they are not going to give the extra money to you. I don't know where you work but if that happened its quite possible that you and many other people would lose their jobs. Like it or not big corporations are the employers of millions of people.
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Who cares? They would still be fabulously wealthy and the country could pay down its debt with the cash, including paying for our indigents.

    And the corporations need the workers just as bad as the workers need the jobs. The coin has two sides.
     
  8. Winston1

    Winston1 Senior Member

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    Henry Ford was brilliant when he quintupled his workers wages. It gave them the means to buy his cars and other so called luxuries as well (washing machines other labor saving devices) and America's wealth grew exponentially. After WW2 when the US was the only industrial power left wages and costs meant little to companies & unions and they got lazy so that by the 80's we were not competitive with Japan & Europe. The total cost of labor was not supportable in the world economy. Unions refused to recognize that and as a result have been essentially broken in the private economy.
    The pendulum may be swinging too far to corporate power but the balance cannot be change by government dictate. Many unions locals are working with companies to find a balance. It is happening with my company Siemens at the plant in Norwood Ohio.
    I believe there is a greater challenge approaching when machines need less supervision and the is less need for a large labor force.

    Red's comment that corporations need workers has another side...they need workers to be able to buy what they make (see Henry Ford above). This is a critical issue that needs to be addressed. One thing wage and price controls from a central government always fail. It has been proven from Diocletian to Nixon.
     
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  9. Winston1

    Winston1 Senior Member

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    It is funny but the real big money people ..the .1 of 1% are the hedge fund billionaires and bankers like Jamie Diamon of Chase lean to the Ds. In fact the hedge fund owners pushed the Ds Charlie Schumer and Barney Frank to tax their income as capital gains (15%) rather than ordinary income (39% or so).
    In general the Rs tend to help the true small business people who are at the bottom of the 1% and whose efforts are the true job creators in the economy.
     
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  10. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    My point to LaSalle is that it wouldn't affect his life one way or the other no matter how much or how little corporations pay in taxes. And yes, they need workers but nowdays skilled workers can be found in lots of other countries than here. Tax Microsoft too much and Bill Gates can tell his lawyers "We're moving the company to India. Make it happen." and thousands of people in Seattle and elsewhere would be out of work. Indian programmers work for a lot less than Americans.

    I don't know if the corporate tax rate is too high or too low. Its probably about where it should be. But big corporations and very wealthy individuals can afford to take advantage of every legal tax strategy there is to minimize their tax burden. I read recently that not too many years ago Warren Buffet paid less in personal income tax than his secretary. That's because his secretary's pay is taxed as ordinary income and the money Buffet earned is probably funneled into trusts and deferred payments and through legal manipulation is not considered to be personal income. And yes, its rediculous that a working stiff who makes $40 or $50 K per years should have to pay $18 to $20K in income taxes. The income tax amendment was supposed to be a tax on only the wealthiest people and even then it was very low. Over the years it has become almost confiscatory for almost everybody.

    There should either be a flat tax rate or a national sales tax. I don't know what that rate should be but certainly no more than 10 or 12% for everybody. Exempt those below the poverty line but everybody else pays. Make $50 Grand-Pay $5000. Make $50 Million-Pay $5 Million.

    Or a national sales tax. After all, the rich buy more things than the poor. Exempt the essentials of life like food. Clothing would be exempt up to a point. No tax on regular clothes but if you want a $3000 Armani suit or a rich woman wants to but $10,000 worth of designer dresses tax it. New vehicles up to $20,000 would be exempt. Some tax on a $30,000 or $40,000 vehicle with the rate going up. If you can afford a $300K Lamborghini you can afford the tax.

    But taxing those with high incomes a higher rate than everybody else is just wrong. Even if everybody paid the same rate the rich guy is still going to pay more taxes than the middle class guy. Look at the UK. Their tax rate on higher incomes is so high that the rich just move their domicile elsewhere. There is probably not a single English rock star or movie star whose legal residence is in England.
     
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