Discussion in 'The RoundTable' started by fanatic, Dec 16, 2012.
I am a direct descendant of Thor, son of Odin, and you will not enter Valhalla.
I certainly can't prove you aren't. Maybe you are. Am I willing to take the leap of faith and claim something I can't possibly know, and pretend to be sure you are not a Viking god?
all religions are made from stupid stories. Some are just older than others and seem less stupid, or, really, some are forced down your throat from day one so you mistake it for reality.
For once we agree completely.
Not really. Most religions are made from good stories intended to teach important lessons. They just should not be taken as real or truthful. Most religions began with primitive, illiterate people. They told stories about their worldview and they had to be memorable to be remembered and passed down. Religious myths should be taken as parables, not the word of God.
No one should imagine that Jesus actually walked on water. Religious people give this as proof that he was a deity. But the story is actually a parable designed to show the faith of the fisherman.
And what about the faith of the fisherman isn't absolute madness and stupidity?
If a lie about walking on water isn't stupid and pointless then nothing is. You are describing them as primitive and illiterate and still refusing to call out their nonsense? Do you mock the stupidity of, for example, Scientology, or is xenu not meant to be literal?
Religiouns are not meant as metaphors. They say Jesus died for our sins and they mean it literally. You and I can laugh at them and say they are myths, but the religious people say they are the word of god. And that is stupid.
Is the central myth of Christianity important lesson, as you say. Jesus died because we sin? We worship false idols and take the lords name in vain so some bloke has to be nailed up for public torture? That a good lesson? Is it a good lesson that god flooded the word and killed everyone? Is it a good lesson that he tests people's faith by asking them to kill their son? Is it a good lesson that god rained hellfire on sodom and gomorrah because they liked hookers and homos?
Well, you certianly didn;t get the message. I ain't surprised.
I mock nobody, That is a childish martin thing. I merely point out an anthropological principal of the importance of mythology in a pre-literate society. But you only grok philosophy while socilology and anthropology are quite lost upon you.
Of course they are! Are you stupid?
The "bible is the literal truth" kooks are stupid. But the message is often not stupid at all. Mythology serves an important purpose in pre-literate people. Literate people who believe important myths to be absolute truth are indeed stupid.
Don't be so black and white, goddamn it, have I taught you nothing, Grasshoppa?
No, it is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Silly rabbit.
No, the message is that killing the messenger does not kill the message.
That was just a neat story about redemption. It is literally the oldest tales on the planet. Talk about withstand time.
The lesson was about the power of faith. I understand that you cannot grok this.
The lesson is that you must behave yourself if you don't want to die of syphilis.
religions are not meant as metaphors. when some tragedy happens in america, people dont talk about prayer, they actually pray. they dont metaphorically pray. they literally try to project their toughts to the magic man. they are not joking. they follow the books as if they are true, and they were meant to be inter
let me interrupt myself. i am watching this kennedy thing on tv and this news about him banging this intern. kennedy is clearly a monster and a terrible man, i dont know what people like about him. was he even a good president? the way the media does hero worship is insane. the way people in general worship anything is insane, which brings me back to....
anyways red, you are accusing me of not understnding the sociology and anthropology of this? please, homey. this is my favorite thing and i am tremendously well read and generally impeccably awesome on the sociology of this. in fact i bring the sociology of myth into everything, so much that you hate it when i claim that the armageddon myths are so powerful to humans that they push the environmental/global warming movement.
you and i know they are myths, but you pretend everyone else treats them like metaphors, but they clearly do not. people do not read the bible like they read lord of the rings or beowulf. and whether they were written as metaphors is largely irrelevant, even though they were not. the dudes writing the gospels literally meant to be recounting factual stories of jesus doing stuff.
correct! so lets mock those fuckers! have you not seen the people here praying for shit left right and center? people here pray for me because i am a heathen. they literally act as if they are gonna shoot their mind waves or whatever to some ghost thing. they are not joking, they are not speaking in metaphor, they are acting the way their books told them to act, the boks that were not meant to be, and are overwhelmingly not interpreted as, myths. so get with the program amigo, and lets mock people like they deserve, it might help them understand the damage they are doing to the world.
also to be clear, you are saying that people who believe myths are stupid. kyle believes jesus died for our sins. is kyle stupid? is tigerchick stupid? she prays for me. my opinion is that they are sort of stupid, but not so stupid that they should believe this bullshit. so that is what is so fascinating, the power of myth, the reluctance of otherwise sane people to avoid the virus of the myth. and i even made up a term describing the ability of a normal person to keep their tendency to believe fantasies compartmentalized so they dont go though life casting spells to get thngs done at work, i call it the skill "isolation of delusion". and i dont like how forgiving we (and you in particular) are about it. we are pussies when we dont say what is obviously true, call people out for being lunatics and idiots. we owe them that honesty.
also tirk is a fascinating example because he is really circumspect about it. he seems to be aware that i am right and his faith is absurd, but its too late for him he cant shake it. and aplogies if am incorrect about that, but it is fascnating, the power of myths to cling to people's minds, even in this day and age.
correct. faith to me is exactly the same is delusion, and should be treated like an illness.
ultimately, i sam saying this: why do mock our political opponents, but not our religious ones?
why can i be an ignorant racist and i get my ass handed to me, but i can be an ignorant catholic and i am respected by society? why i ask! why, fuckers!
ignorance is ignorance.
You really are awesome martin. You make me laugh.